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“$1bn to refinance the priming facility more than start of year”

This is NOT new money. It’s new loans paying old loans - and pushing those lenders to the top of the priority ladder.

*apologies - $1bn to refinance the priming facility, not $1m of course

"Cant get on website so is there nothing in the court docs."

I think it's all in Court Doc 676 which among many other things in 96 pages states:

Chapter 11 Case Procedures (together, the “Local Rules”), seeking, among other things, entry of an order:
(i) authorizing the Debtors3 to incur senior secured postpetition obligations on a superpriority basis in respect of a senior secured superpriority priming U.S. dollar term loan facility (“DIP Facility”) in the aggregate principal amount, of
$1,935,000,000 (the “DIP Commitments” and, all such loans, the “DIP Loans”), in accordance with, and subject to the terms and conditions set forth in, the DIP Credit Agreement, dated as of September 9, 2022;

(a) $664 million... shall be permitted to draw,,.the “Working Capital Loans”)
(b) $1,000,000,000...shall be used...to refinance, in full in cash, all outstanding Prepetition Priming Facility Obligations
(c) $271,000,000 (the “RoW Debt Purchase Price”) to effectuate a “take-out” of the outstanding principal

So basically agreement to be able to use $664m for working capital requirements, $1m to refinance the priming faciilty and $271k to deal with the RoW debt. Only (a) is NEW funding.

The total is $150m higher than the previous $1,785m hence the additional $150m referred to in the articles.

So good news as could all have gone pear-shaped before this so another milestone reached but still a long way to go before CINE is out of the woods and of course still a lot of uncertainly about how existing shareholders will fare at the end of it all.

HC - I don't think they can sell those machines, well not without paying back lenders the loans which many of those machines back. Any such sales wouldn't help the cash position.

PI - I said they are dying not dead. So not jumping the gun. They have taken loans out already against almost everything. They wouldn't be selling new machines at rock bottom prices if they were able to raise more money so easily. Surely the 'shrewd businessman in you' can see that?

Fair enough HC - any new machines that cheap are almost bound to be profitable as any additional fixed costs should be much lower than the numbers AB suggests - as obviously the 'fixed' cost base by its nature shouldn't go up much.

...that's because the company is dying.

AB - yes, agree it's theoretically possible especially with machines currently so cheap but I don't know of any miner that is even close at the moment. Take CLSK (one of the better ones I think):

Their depreciation costs alone were around $15k per BTC in the last quarter - though picking up ARB cheapies will help! Your number comes out as under $5k.

Their power costs were a little over $10k per BTC mined. Good but still more than your $7.5k.

Their other costs appear to amount to around $12k per BTC mined - so not less than the 2.3mil per month you need in your example to breakeven (which is $8.5k per BTC mined).

So a start-up might be able to get close to your numbers but CLSK was at around $37k per BTC mined last quarter and I doubt if any are operating at under $30k per BTC mined at the moment, let alone $20k.

"For any of the bitcoin miners to move bitcoin will have to move. So why not just buy bitcoin?"

Because if bitcoin moves the (good) miners will move much faster. The downside risk is also more though - as we are seeing with CORZ and ARB.

HC - Looking at their accounts suggests that although their overall costs per BTC mined are not much lower than ARB their cash cost per BTC mined is (a lot more of their cost is depreciation and share based payments). My estimate (please DYOR) is that it is about $17k per BTC mined which if close to correct means a low cash base only becomes a problem if BTC falls further or they still have outstanding capex commitments. The $17k may also be out of date as it was based on the last quarter reported (though would expect if anything this to get lower with fixed costs being spread more and maybe power costs coming down).

This contrasts with ARB as they are losing cash each month and we still don't know if they have outstanding commitments with intel.

Thanks Chae - yes CINE is providing a nice pick-me-up today, along with a few others that have been asleep for so long.

No one to blame on ARB though but myself. I read the signs pretty well and the likely direction of travel but still went the other way regardless and got lost. Just couldn't force myself to sell at a small loss despite my own misgivings - so ended up with a much bigger one. Lesson learned I hope.

I've now sold over half my ARB holding and keeping the rest in hope more than expectation as it's really hard to work out any scenario where ARB survives (with existing shareholders largely unaffected) and even harder to come up with one where it prospers. The only hope I think it really has is in a rapid BTC recovery. A takeover benefitting existing shareholders certainly seem unlikely.

In the meantime the sp could fluctuate a bit and so the stock has attracted the usual types who flock towards distressed shares and start ramping it like crazy or knock it with tired one-liners ('last one out turn off the lights' etc.). Or some like Sharebel and Smiler who switch between the two depending on what position they hold. Laughable. At least we don't have to put up with LA and Everup anymore so every cloud...

Good luck Krauty - your posts have always been well worth reading in amongst all the ramping nonsense and the trolling dross.

The difference with CINE is that it is a profitable business (pre-coved and will be post covid) so is worth saving - just a case of how much shareholders suffer as part of the price of saving it given its huge debt obligations.

ARB is heavily loss-making though so why would any white knight come in and try to prop it up? The selling of machines has bought it a few months possibly but any outside investor putting money in will just see their investment eroded by the losses which cannot be turned around unless BTC goes on an almighty surge. It would be a far less risky play to invest in BTC directly if they think that's going to happen - at least they don't lose anything if BTC stays where it is whereas they will lose everything with ARB unless BTC rises sharply and soon.

Really struggle with the ramping that is unbelievably still going on with this stock despite the latest RNS. There may be short term trading opportunities but heavily loss-making businesses that are low on cash and with little prospect of being profitable in the near future do not last long.

All good thanks Wolf - hope all well with you too. As for CINE it looks like the sp is stuck at this kind of level until significant news (or rumour of it) comes out of the process - either way.

...I assume he still does but it makes no difference to the costs or to profitability.

For info a breakdown of costs for September per BTC mined (215):

Power - $15k (actual). Only cost included in 25% mining margin
Machines (via depreciation) - $9k (actual)
Interest - $3k (estimated)
Other (salaries etc.) - $15k (estimated)

Estimated total - $42k per BTC mined of which around $30k cash (excluding any capex)

The only cost included in the margin you're looking at is electricity. If you put all the other costs in (salaries, cost of machines via depreciation, interest etc.) then it is over $40k BTC required to be profitable.

HC - I agree Corz seem in a worse place - and have been unluckier getting there.

I'm just saying that the positions are similar in that they both overstretched and are both strapped for cash and trying to get some more in but with ARB looking closer to being able to do so. The fall CORZ is seeing in its sp is also similar to that ARB saw when they released their RNS on funding (except worse as they don't seem to have anything specific potentially lined up to deal with it - apart from not paying its bills on time)!

Yes, thanks Patience, your list looks much better and appears to match up with the accounts and subsequent holdings notified by RNS (including the full disinvestment by Polaris).

The figures also exclude HL which is actually PI money invested in shares. I suspect Aberdeen and Aviva may be similar in that they perhaps represent PI money via mutual funds rather than direct shares.

The Core ‘blah blah’ is very relevant as it mirrors closely the same issues ARB are having - i.e. running out of cash and trying to seek more.

Not sure how mentioning historic profits helps as they are exactly that, historic. Both companies are now running at huge losses with no sign of a turnaround.

Personally I think the place has been a better one lately to discuss ideas - devoid of most of the senseless ramping and annoying trolling that used to dog the board.

It’s just unfortunate that the news of late has been almost unrelentingly bad.