Member Info for Gitfinger

I hear what you say, but Melvin didn't manifest himself until March 23, long after AIM had vanished, so I can't quite see how that pans out.....agreed, a bit narcissist who doesn't see any view other than his own, but he's not unique on that front on this board though......As for the happy place, I defer to your better knowledge on that front.....

I have been accused of being AIM by others, though.....

JN

I'm being a bit sensible now, so please bear with.

You keep referring to AIM as a basher......he was most definitely in your camp up to the point that he apparently moved over to the dark side, and was very quickly outed as a "wrong un". If you think back, there was along running argument about what actually constituted a loss, when Garonne said he was underwater on this share. His argument was that the loss didn't actually exist until the share was sold, and could therefore be ignored as it suited his argument..My argument was that in the boring world of accounts, if there has been a dimunition of value of an asset then it needs to be accounted for, and on that basis, the loss is effectively real, and cannot simply be ignored. I sparred with him on a regular basis, and even got into an argument about what his holding actually was, so I personally find it a bit strange that he has been tarred with the basher tag, and is accused of being an alter ego of another poster.

Now, I'm quite happy for you to attack me, and call me all the names under the sun, because it's all a part of the great game that puts meat on the bones of life (look at it as supercharged banter), and I can assure you that I have no connection whatsoever with AIM (the possible connection came about because of a misinterpretation of something sarcastic I posted at the point he turned) but I do think that you may possibly have misread AIM's intentions. I would respectfully request that you don't include him in your catch all list of names when referring to the list of usual suspects that you refer to as "scum"

However, that's only my view on it from what I have seen on this board.....if he's been a naughty boy in the happy place, then that's a different matter, but obviously I don't know what occurs over there....

OK Boiler room gang, I've got this one as I'm on a roll.....

Brightfuture

"Garonne states ‘they clearly have nothing tangible’. Is that why ABB have purchased a fuel cell at an overall cost of £2 million plus an immediate £2 million in investment. Is that why some of the world’s largest construction companies are trailing AFC equipment"

You got me there! Except

a) The contract for development of the ABB unit was £4.0M. That was for development of a unit that met the performannce criteria. That is the contractual entitlement. There was no contractual requirement to hand over 10,000,000 shares as a part of the deal (they had a sticker price of £2.0M at the point of the deal, now worth £1.2M, I bet the ABB CFO is dead chuffed) so ask yourself why AFC gave away £2.0 M of shareholder (yes, YOUR) value when there was no contractual need to do so, unless ABB HAD SOME KIND OF LEVERAGE.....

b) The kettle boilers out on trial and on a no commitment basis, and cost the proto customers nothing, so as there is no tie in, and it costs them nothing to have them on site as a bit of free greenwashing, the likely benefit to AFC in the long term is very limited.

If you disagree with either of the above, then you're quite welcome to post a fully reasoned counter argument, if you so desire, but no matter, I'm sure that B3 will jump to your defence saying that I am ignorant in the ways of fuel cell studies.....

B3

"So, I suppose your next idiotic argument will be that AFC should not employ scientists who were educated abroad. Patriotic duty to work in the country that educated them. What utter tosh"

More complete twaddle on your part I'm afraid chum.....The UK has a proud record of accommodating scientist and others who have qualifications with "ics" at the end (as opposed to "studies") and this has been exceptionally beneficial to the nation as a whole, and also the individuals who came here to undertake the research. These people may or may not settle here, but if they do, then they are contributors to this economy, and if they return, they do so with a greater skill set than they set out with, so that's beneficial to their country of origin.

Education is a right, higer education us usually paid for, and an individual (note the word INDIVIDUAL) has the right to decide whether / how/ where they choose to work, so if a UK scientist chooses to work abroad, then so be it, that's their choice and I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with a company receiving more cash support from the UK government than it has ever generated in turnover blatantly saying that it is investigating effectively removing some of the long term benefits as the point they actually get a commercially viable product. So where will the taxes be paid on any profits made by this this offshore profit centre?

On the basis that you see this approach as being fundamentally acceptable, then you are effectively saying that the UK can waive goodbye to all manufacturing in the UK where there is a slim hope that there might be a sale into the EU....and in any case, re commissioning this shed doesn't appear to be a part of any great pan EU hydrogen promotion project (oh, of course , project power up was a great success for the company) and it's actually not that difficult to sell things into the EU, so the only issue seems to be a couple of bottles of cheap hydrogen....

You keep talking it up.......makes no odds to me, but I will continue to debunk....

B3

The fact that you keep making the ridiculous statement that I don't know the difference between a membrane and a catalyst without a shred of evidence to support this accusation (I challenged you to find a post indicating my apparent misunderstanding, but you have failed to do so) kind of does make it look like you're unhinged.

Crack on, sonny, you keep believing, I'm sure in your little mind, this will ultimately be the road to riches, but personally, I think it's just a little company, run by the board for their own enrichment, with their actions being supported on social media by a small number of evangelical supporters who either

a) Simply cannot accept that, what they thought was going to be the road to riches, is probably going to be a small dirt track to absolutely nowhere.

or

b) Are in the employ of someone who is desperate to manage the perceptions of the company on social media in order to cast a veil over the shortcomings of the product being developed.

So which is it then? someone too emotionally attached to be able to see the wood for the trees, or a paid ramper?

JN & B3

Answer the question…..morally correct to export a company’s trade after the British taxpayer has funded it? It’s acceptable to take vast R&D tax credits and then investigate.moving some operations offshore.

Neither of you will express an opinion on this I guarantee…..

Not getting flustered, I came do this all day long…….

B3……show clear evidence of ignorance of how a chocolate tempo works posted by me….you won’t because you can’t but carry on with your slanderous posts, I won’t report them because that wholly the preserve of the thin skinned with no calis counter argument…..

JN

So now not even allowed to respond to a personal attack from captain thin skin…..who has got the post deleted because it made a valid point……..which I’ll repeat…

Captain thin skin seems to think it’s OK for the company to investigate exporting some of its activity. What happens to those looking for careers in manufacturing in the UK if all companies followed AFC’s lead? Or is it OK, simply because it’s AB saying it , and it’s providing another straw to clutch at? I solicit your view, is it acceptable for UK companies who, let’s not forget receive considerable support from the state in the form of R&D tax credits to simply ship activity to a more competitive market?

B3

And that’s the best response you’ve got…..no reasoned argument…..just absolute denial and insults…..pathetic……guess even the loved up AB fan boys have run out of steam……

B3

Read the RNS……the crux of the issue isn’t the poxy amount of hydrogen needed to test a battery supported proton fuel cell that hasn’t found a market, it’s the apparent willingness to export a significant part of the business….call me an idiot if you like (but remember this is an idiot that offloaded 90% of his holding at 42 pence, and therefore isn’t hurting as much as the now significantly poorer intelligencia) but I’d rather be regarded as a patriotic idiot than someone so, so desperate to see a recovery in the price that they will welcome any divisive RNS with open arms, no questions asked….

B3

Read the RNS

"As a consequence of this decision, AFC Energy is also commissioning a study into the potential co-location of development and large scale contract manufacturing facilities in Germany to support the growth in system deployments. Germany benefits from an existing supply chain for fuel cell components with a large number of automotive and skilled manufacturing facilities able to meet the projected fuel cell pipeline"

That sounds like shipping a whole chunk of the capability out to Germany to me.....And yes, I would far rather they stay in the UK, even if the H2 is more expensive....This is, after all "a great little british company".....that just happens to be run by a not so British CEO,

JN

Does that mean you should now call me "Baron Toad" "Lord Toad" "Sir Toad" then?

Climate is a real thing, we all know that, and I know that the good folks in Verbier are really concerned at the shortening season, so don't preach to me on that front. I would ask the question of exactly how climate friendly fuel cell technology is, especially as it now seems wholly reliant of a whacking great battery to be remotely viable as a product......Carbon footprint on batter production, human rights associated with Lithium mining? Add to that, how green overall is the production of hydrogen unless produced by electrolysis using renewable as the power source.

Oh, and the dig about "bonus King".....that bonus ting was a not to subtle dig at the tin foil hat brigade who actually believe in paid bashers..... obviously a bit too subtle for you then......

JN

To be honest, I just get really annoyed at people not letting others have nay point of view that's at odds with your own. You keep talking the company up, commenting on all of the great positives, when in fact there has been nothing issued by the company that in reality has a SHRED of actual substance or credibility.

To date, the company has not succeeded in delivering a single product to market to the point of actually making a capital sale of single unit on remotely commercial terms. Look back at the history of the company, it is absolutely littered with false dawns that have never actually materialised into anything tangible.

If you look at the so called product line up at the moment, what is there to actually sell on a commercial basis? We have a power tower with no data on capital cost, running cost, or maintenance cost, it's been trialed by a few companies on terms that are clearly less than commercial, an arrangement with ABB which at the moment seems to require a huge giveaway at the shareholders expense in order to maintain momentum, and all the while a CEO who seems intent on keeping his nose in the trough in spite of there being a news drought in respect of anything concrete. And to add insult to injury, he's now implying that he's quite happy to move some of the company capability offshore, talk about not being able to read the room!

Why do I spend time here? balance, my boy, why should you be allowed to railroad others with your own views, which others may well regard as deluded with no counterpoint.

For the avoidance of doubt, yes, am invested, No, not in the paid employ of the shorters, simply fed up with the company continually overstating its achievements and the sycophants letting them get away with it unchallenged.

Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean that they are necessarily wrong, you know......

All I can say is, you keep vociferously defending the company and I'll respond......

JN

"Not exactly the type of person anyone should give a SHED of credibility to……"

People in glass houses should check their spelling......

More tinfoil hat conspiracy theory rubbish......risible.......

Rooky

I personally wouldn't have referred people to the 2015 RNS. People might just go and have a look, and more importantly read all of the various RNS notifications issued around that time........all very very positive, 10MW contract here, Power supply contract there, Kore working better than expected, etc......and what was actually the net result of all of this positive hyperbole.........Net Zero, and some 8 years later, we still don't have a single product that appears to be attracting actual orders......and you wonder why we treat everything that comes out of the company with suspicion.

If you regard it as just the bashing ramblings of a nutjob, then that's your choice, but the clue to the actual relevance of the RNS is how the market reacts......where's the share price now?

Ah, so the relationship with Air products was there in the background, sat there like a coiled spring!

.....nice to see that AB is considering shifting what could be a large part of the company's activity offshore....so much for the "how very dare you bash a great British company" type rhetoric we had a short while ago......

Look on the bright side……I got a bonus today! Apparently my performance over the last three months has been positively outstanding……

Garonne

It won't be M3 who will have had the thread removed, as that's not his modus operandi....his is to simply fill the board with spam.....I have an idea who it is.....

To be fair, you're actually about as much of a ramper as I am a basher......you have your views, and I have mine.....you state your position, and I state mine.....neither stance is either right or wrong, because we are in a period of uncertainty, and until either position is proven, it's simply banter between people with too much time on their hands, and nothing more sinister than that.....

Says the arch ramper (well, you are now that Mc Rampup's gone!)

Touche!