Member Info for Gerry557

For those than want MKC shares you can now get them 17% cheaper than ULVRs deal.

The $57.843 of shares can now be bought for $48.02 a $9.823 discount in the market.

Will the larger shareholders descent and cause a rethink

"What about the June payout?"

Which is 15.67p whereas last September's was 6.12. So considerably smaller. I'd expect a 2% bump on that though for this year's second payment

D27

Of course the UK holding funds will have to sell the American buisness as they dont hold a mandate and quite a few hold ULVR. So that will put more downward pressure on MKC after the deal goes through.

I suppose those funds might try doing a scenario like Im contemplating, to sell up before the deal. I don't know about getting back in though as I suspect the rump will rise after getting rid.

I note MKC is back down to 50 dollars again after climbing a bit so we're back to a 7 dollar loss on the deal again. The good news is the ULVR swap tracker show the swap means my increase is only 17% now from more than 20% so if ULVR can keep climbing to the summer or at worst Christmas we might be able to get an exit without loosing too much. I can also extract some dividends whilst I wait.

In fact I'd rather keep the current food buisness than this particular deal which will dilute them plus a big debt profile.

Why not add more Investment Trusts as you are already looking at MRCH and some trackers.

PeterH it must be your broker. I can get a price, and smidgen under a quid

I expect personal circumstances play a big part. If your landlord can afford to accept lower rents thats fine but some cant so ask for market rates. Most landlords, with decent tenants, often hold rents so as to keep that tenant and then move back to market rates when finding a new tenant.

Other landlords have been bitten by poor tenants so require more to take the risk. I remember a discussion on the renters right bill and someone saying its unfair to kick out a decent tenant who pays on time. I countered why would a landlord do that when its that scenario that is ideal for a landlord. So if they are being evicted its usually for other reasons anyway such as wanting to live their themselves.

Forced rent controls end up with lots of unintending consequences just look at the States

I didnt see the program or whatever got your goat. Was it about Thames Water or the regulators.

Yes we could go back to being run by government and a total lack of investment because voters shout louder for other things. Maybe you dont remember how poor things were. The Regulators were told to keep bills in check which was successful on that point of view.

Now the mood music (and climate) have changed. So now we are getting a lot more investment but now the consumer is upset bills are rising.

I dont have a solution to large investment and lower bills and the tax payer getting a freeby

PNN showing a bit of a jump today. A flight to safety maybe.

I don't see why people would get miffed, would they do the same with those who try to sell high and buy low. I suppose the dividend is a known quantity where as trying to sell and rebuy lower over a small window introduces a bigger element of risk. Some have claimed to be successful in doing just that. Did they post at the time or like a lot of people on this site only claim "hindsight" dealings which don't give much creedance to their claims.

I also think that size probably matters. If you are working with £2.5k it might be too much effort for small rewards compared to say £25k or £250k.

It would be interesting to hear from some who didn't make a successful attempt at a divi swap

So after running around 273p it closed on the last day at 268.60p according to London SE. Not sure why it dropped so much at the end of the day for those last 10 min.

On ex divi it opened 251p so a drop of 17.6. 1.93p more than the 15.67p dividend but dipped slightly to 250.75 lows before recovering to a peek on the day of 255.65.

273.30 appeared to be the peak on the day before, subtract the low of 250.75 gives a 22.55 max swing. So if you were lucky you could get 6.88p less stamp and dealing. It also ignores any tax implications, hopefully its in an isa or sipp wrapper.

Put here for historical reference to monitor trends.

Rumble, I think we might be saying the same. I've used 16.67 and 6.12 to get 21.79 current dividend. I get them from their announcements and adjust accordingly as more announcements are made. Is this the same as your "annual historic" I use this to give me the if I was buying right now yield.

I keep tabs on the running yield as hopefully the dividend grows over time so I monitor that growth (or drop) and it gives an indication of the return on the original investment as income and discounts any movement in the share price. As this change is your profit or loss.

So yes a nice warm feeling especially if the market dips. Im happy to sit on a loss (paper) knowing that my return on original investment from the running yield is still churning out. I think it gives me more confidence not to sell up and panic at the first downturn.

Rumpel you are also mixing terms and not clarifying which "yield" you are talking about. Buy yield or running yield. Yes the buy yield is based on the current market price (and dividend) My running yield is based on my historical buy price and current dividend, which could be higher or lower than the current buy yield.

No Im not using yield to determine the "highest dividend income" as that wouldn't work.

I can see the math with your A B example but it only works as a math exercise and if you are only looking for the highest dividend. Why not sell A and B and buy C with its 20% yield ?

We buy different shares for different reasons some of the best ones don't even pay a dividend. What happens if B's share price falls and it cuts its dividend.

I think some people are comparing apples with oranges. My 230 buy definitely provide a higher yield than 241 lot its simple math.

Couerdellion, I don't understand what never sell the stock has anything to do with this. Maybe you are getting confused over the bought yield and the current buy yield terms.

I bought two lots recently at 241 and 230 maybe you could use some figures to explain how the yield can be the same cos its higher for me with the 230 lot.

ML59

Selling today and hoping for a bigger drop tomorrow is just a chance. You could wait longer term hoping for another dip. Factor in dealing, stamp and the possibility that it doesn't just adds to the uncertainty and personal circumstances will also play a part in the decision. How long are you willing to wait.

It's not something I would do but you might make it work.

"It’s completely irrelevant now as the share price has risen and your yield is lower now."

Wrong. Your yield is the dividend/price paid.

If the share price rises it doesn't affect your purchase yield and often called the running yield which my be higher or lower than the current buy yield.

So if I pay a quid and you pay 2 quid for the same share. We both get the same cash dividend per share but our yields will be much different.

"Is it true to say that if the LGEN buy back = 10% of outstanding shares . Does it follow that the SP will rerate in a 10% increase following the end of the scheme?"

That assumption only works with the shares and company in a vacuum. The buyback amount of shares varies with the share prices which fluctuate daily. Additionally the company fortunes also change daily. If it starts to under perform the share price will naturally deteriorate, possibly slowed by the buyback. If the company does well then the share price rises, possibly pushed higher by the buyback.

If the shares doubled today and stayed at that level then the buyback would only buy 5% of the outstanding shares for the same amount of cash.

Normally I look to see if Im going to invest my own money to decide if its a good time to do a buyback. Some days it is and some days it isn't. The buyback isn't as surgical as I can be. It looks like it will be buying back no matter the price and for a large time window. Im cherry picking my moments to dips and only occasional purchases.

We have to hope the board have got this one right with its buyback. Not all of them work out and sometimes boards make terrible investors.

So MICC has dipped below a tenner. Not sure that was in the script. I acknowledged there has been the gulf situation which has knocked all shares. MKC dropping back too.

Looking at my Unilever share swap tracker identified Im now over 20% better off having done the swap. In fact its likely it would have been more if I hadn't repurchase a slug of ULVR back. I cant really take credit though as I only sold due to being held in multiple brokers. Had it all been in one I would be holding ULVR and MICC and would be blissfully unaware of how my swap had gone.

I suppose the food divestment is muddling the waters too as far as rump ULVR goes

If the dividends were paid quarterly it would prevent the 6% drop expected this week after going ex divi. More regular but 2.5% drops might distort things less.

Still that might not allow for the "divi hunters" pushing the price up pre and then selling post allowing some to get in a bit cheaper. LLOYs were going quarterly until covid hit.

I dont know how it would affect the company, increased costs or more managed cash flow???

I don't automatically reinvest. My dividend has already been reinvested in advance during the recent dip. So the next dividend will fill up the pot in case something else dips or there is another dip here at some point.

I might expect some movement in summer but think current events are driving the market atm. Your not sure if its going to crash or soar. It could do both in a day unfortunately

Normally there isn't much in it. You are unlikely to get a free dividend. Buying pre ex divi gives you access to the dividend but payment is delayed, in this case to 4th June. If you need cash in that timescale just buy less shares to begin with and keep your cash.

Buying pre dividend means you are effectively selling a small bit of your company. So then you need to decide if you are going to reinvest and at what cost, stamp and dealing. It's probably only worth it if you think the market will increase the value of the shares over the resulting divi drop. If the company is doing well then the SP should begin to rise but over time not in a day.

There is also the possibility that post ex divi, those looking to get out after bagging a "free" dividend and selling up added to the reduction in strength due to no up coming dividend might see a bigger fall than just the dividend.

Still its likely that the gulf will play the biggest part on the price this year.

I would ignore the difference buying on either of those two days and buy when it hits your buy price.

Where did that info come from? Often deals are not marked correctly as systems struggle to work it our.

Still, if you sell, it has to be to someone.