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You are saying 57p would represent a P/E of 1, but I do not see that as the limit. Why not 2, or 3? Once established and proven as an ongoing business, that may be more realistic.

Thank you Tenantry, I did actually know, and agree Ezza, but the complexity may be an issue that deters newcomers from piling in, and "left pocket to right pocket" does not look good.
Erik -appreciated, and it is the right season.

The murkiness is beyond my comprehension. It seems various bits of Ben's Creek are owned by multitudinous other but interrelated companies and the whole setup is designed to transfer money between them so the bit that is the shareholder's company is continually bled dry. A chart of who owns whom, linking them all together, may help. I agree the fundamentals are sound, and the network of organisations will be reaping benefits, but to the benefit of whom, I am not sure. I need to go to sleep and wake up in a year's time, we may know by then.

I agree Tenantry, but I cannot top up, I have these shares coming out of my ears!

"Gone long .." does that mean actually bought some shares, or does it mean betting? I am curious why people make spread bets because I am sure actually buying the share would give a better return if your judgement is correct, but please correct me if I am wrong you spread-betters out there. The advantage as I see it is when you use borrowed capital that you don't have (whatever the technical term for that is) to gain even bigger profits than I would as a (beneficial) share holder. But that takes courage that I don't have !

@ Dickie : "Are you short of this stock?" LOL. I have piled more into this share than I have ever done in all other investments bar one. My last purchase was last month. I have not sold any, but at this depressed price my profit (if I sold) is nearly double the cost (ignoring inflation). I expect to hold for years yet. My post was merely attempting an explanation for the lack of enthusiasm of others, answering the question posed by the subject title.

Indeed, I probably daren't sell until a new government cuts the capital gains tax.

Casual reading of the RNS gives a negative impression. "rising challenges, increased incidents, performance continued to deteriorate, further exacerbated, partially mitigated, resulting in a loss, discounts have widened, sales expected to be a decrease of 14%, closing mines, higher costs" ... etc etc

Even if that is not depressing enough to make you give up, and you move on to the table of figures, all the forecasts are about 20% down.

Finally, I am sure there is a thought that even if at the end of it there is some money, with the track history of government embezzlement it may never see the light of day in the outside world.

I read that the coal (if it ever materializes, project to be abandoned on next U-turn or change of government) will be shipped via the East coast. This smacks of sending coals to Newcastle!

This is buying a horse after you have burned the stables down. The UK has closed all the steelworks.

But the other half of the problem is that your actual shareholder (eg HL) can't be bothered to claim the tax back on your behalf. They could if they wanted.

Sipp, Isa or plain full taxed, it makes no difference as the tax is deducted in South Africa, and TGA does not even know who the individual beneficial holders are, let alone how they are held. If TGA knew who we were, there would be no (well, only half of the) withholding tax, and that is the problem.

Toad - I am sure HL holders reported the same, but look at your dividend pdf that you downloaded. You will see 2 figures for payment and tax. It does not mention withholding tax, but your payment will be 4 times the tax figure, and that tax is the 20% SA tax.

As far as I know there is no solution other than buying shares from a real broker and getting a share certificate in your name. Join the club with the rest of us :(

That link as I read it is about getting an element of income tax put into your pension fund by the government - which is automatic for most of us and has no bearing on the south african withholding tax.

Investing is more like putting a stocking up for Santa, hoping he will come.

All the best, bear.

The production update was just the sort of news we want to hear. Too much to hope for a "financial update"? I am sure it is, but we are on the right track and accelerating well.

I say thermal coal currently has no commercially practical alternative and not likely to be for a long time. Both types of coal have their uses, and both types are made investment bargains by the lunatics who are dragging their countries down. In a more sensible society they would be put away until they grow up, not pandered to.

I have been in touch with the Raiffeisen Bank with regard to forced conversion into Russian shares held over there, a hell of a complex and expensive rigmarole involving life history, passport, notarised translations into Russian of everything, but they will not even give any info on charges to open a repo account for me, nor selling them, and there is certainly no chance of getting any money out of the country. Dead and buried along with Gazprom for UK. Thanks Rishi.

Think of it this way : we are only now back up to the price it fell to going ex-dividend, so recovered from the unexplained collapse that then hit. We have recovered that ground, but this time other shares have gone up 10% so we have a long way to go yet. £18 is to be expected.