The latest Investing Matters Podcast with Jean Roche, Co-Manager of Schroder UK Mid Cap Investment Trust has just been released. Listen here.
Lloydsy<< I'm glad you were able to predict a Russia/Ukraine war and the precise actions of the UK government on a 20 year+ company based in London, it was probably obvious to other LTH as well...
Please can I have Fridays Euro Millions number as well???
Lloydsy<< not suggesting deramping, but to LTH it should not of been high risk
1) admitted 1994
2) Russia pro gold
3) profitable and big contributor local economy
4) FTSE250 screened
5) London based
Uk government walking a UK company into administration wiping out UK investors on behalf of a war they have no direct conflict in for political statement and careers...
Is this an obvious risk???
Lawrence13<< For complaints you can use fcdo.correspondence@fcdo.gov.uk. I initially wrote to the cabinet office publiccorrespondence@cabinetoffice.gov.uk to log it as a government complaint, it then got assigned to the OFSI. There are two stages to government complaints, so its should now go to a manager at the department as I sent a copy of POG's administration RNS.
If the outcome is not positive, then the next move is to get a letter from MP and take it to the health and parliamentary ombudsman.
LLoydsy<< New poster??? At what point did you know it was risky? When it was FTSE250? After the Sanctions?
7000 bottles of beer on the wall, 7000 bottles of beer...
So no mention of this but what exactly is happening to the 7000 employees at this point of time???
Lawrence13<< Have you wrote to OFSI??? I have written to update them and ask review. If you are interested in a legal case let me know.
One interesting question is that given that they have just ousted their Leader over trust, and that political agenda probably played a role in these Sanctions, it places even bigger holes in the merits of the Sanctions. How many resignations??? how much hiring and firing??? How many policy changes???
TotheMoon1<< I wasn't arguing with you, but pointing out different perspectives.
I think it was more Charlie who nicknamed 'Diworsification,'but Buffet has only bought 1 stock before in a year, my point was that it depends on the timing or time period.
I really meant the same for index funds, if all stocks are falling in a bear market, then it means the index will fall. Yes you could reduce industry risk etc, but all stocks sell off in a bear, that was my point. That it where buying defensive stocks only may outperform e.g. food/supermarkets.
Michael Burry is wealthier than both of us, maybe his timing is off sometimes, but he can back up his claims with a big chunk of money. Indexes include a lot of fund managers etc that buy the same stock, in a crash this can lead to dislocations, hence why ARC funds have gone from being a superstar to a laggard.
TotheMoon1<< I kind of feel like your preaching to me like you are the share God...
I agree with diversification. However, I feel that's a cop out for the situation; and if you go by Warren Buffet or Charlie Munger who call it diworsification, that they will only buy 1 stock and look after it well if they are confident, then there are holes in your thesis.
Secondly, index funds don't work in a bear market or bearish times; and Michael Burry thinks eventually they will collapse due to change in the way people invest.
So it is still a stock pickers market, and it should not be considered a fruit machine just because of overreach and blank cheque policy. It is supposed to be a free market, with fair and orderly market participation, and natural market forces.
I was LTH here, so it is a hard loss. Where does it stop??? One rule for them, one rule for us???
How is the average person ever supposed to get ahead in life, if the system is constantly rigged against the little person.
I don't agree it is normal, the war is not normal, even the people implementing Sanctions state they didn't know the fall out and that they just wanted to act at pace.
Evraz was geographically diverse, however Russian association led to delisting.
There is a code of conduct based on fair and orderly market participation, under your premise you should accept that any company you buy could become a war target and get Sanctioned to point it is unable to sell its main product or pay its debt.
In which case you have 'NO FREE MARKET,' and stocks are all gambling.
TotheMoon1<< POG was FTSE250 which is mid cap screened to be investable by LSE based on size/liquidity etc
If main coca cola was stopped how much do you think SP would go down??? It wouldn't happen
I can take your point on geography based on one region, however:
A) Russia is pro Gold, POG is big contributor to local economy
B) Sanction imposed on UK company by UK government against different country without direct conflict, by choice to intervene in different countries conflict.
NOT Normal, Not normal market risk
email<< Would POG of sold its Gold and paid its debt to Gazprom had it not been for Sanction prevention???
Answer: YES
Sanction has walked company into this situation...Were there alternatives? Maybe, but without Sanction business would operate as normal.
Are you saying that Governments have a blank cheque on Sanctions??? Would you consider it normal market risk if they decided to block Coca Cola selling regular coke next week because it is causing obesity or tooth decay???
LeChameleon<< Recently the Nickel market blew up, this left a billionaire short seller in the red, guess what the trades were cancelled for the day and price controls were put in.
About two years ago there was a silver squeeze, when it reached breaking point people are on record 'tamping down' the price of silver; together with further evidence of price rigging on gold/silver with JP Morgan
Not to mention Gamestop etc
Why was the market not suspended??? When you can cite cases, you have a case...
If anyone is interested in bringing a legal case I would be interested in hearing, what about setting up a petition or joint case???
From my understanding the basis of the Sanction has floors:
A) UK was not at war with Russia, the Sanction was personal choice to make political statement on behalf of Ukraine
B) At time of Sanction POG was part of FTSE250, this is screened by LSE for a company to marketed as investable in terms of size and liquidity.
C) Government took payment for premium listing on FTSE250 and stamp duty from Investors
D) No consultation took place
E) Company did nothing wrong (In terms of Sanction)
F) Normal functioning of market broke down and divestment was promoted
G) Investors were locked into loss and Sanctions were escalated to make company default
According to POG's figures the assets almost match the debt/liabilities. If two offers exist, why take company into administration and not accept a low ball offer, given the difference was about 100m???
There is certainly a lot of posts on here if everyone has given up? The MOEX still trading today is a cherry for someone.
If you were a LTH and bought before the war there may be some legal comeback.
I have advised cabinet/OFSI on the off chance they may look at this situation before administration court proceedings, but these days turnaround is never good.
In respect of not suspending MOEX same time, sounds like a trade has been set up.
Two mentions of offers with no agreement in their administrators application...
What's that all about???
I don't know, unless you sold first day all LTH will be looking at big loss as it collapsed within 2-3days. Plus looks like still high institution ownership 50%+
I was thinking we should write to the government to ask if we can take money from the safe of a bank so we can build a homeless shelter. As apparently if you can justify the means then its ok to take something that's not yours. So these Sanctions were well thought out, don't worry if you bring hardship on innocent people...
No reply from JM, must be on a 6 week cruise...Decided to try Max, and ask what exact efforts are being made for the benefit of shareholders??? You know like explaining the position to the UK government, MP's, FCA etc, you know the Sanctions bite back. Right lets teach Putin a lesson, by wiping out UK investors and lowering income for the UK economy!!!