Member Info for EdwardSeaton

So, EPS of £6 per share.

Currently sitting on £1bn of cash.

CINE is by a very long way the most useless, rambling, ranting thread I have found on this site.

Keyboard diarrhoea.

Why do it, guys? It is not cool, not funny, and certainly not useful.

Tiger179 - you assume that the payilment of enormous dividends is the primary interest of shareholders. The responsibility of a board of directors is to make the best use of the resources available, and only to pay a dividend if those resources are not needed or cannot be put to better use.

The dividend obsession is uniquely British. Most US companies pay little if any dividends, and some of them are apparently worth quite a lot.

Tiger179 - nobody buys Bisichi because their share price is £3. They buy it because they think £3 is less than it should be.

What to you mean by 'match or outperform TGA'?

I assume by being on here you already know that Thungela mines 13x more coal per annum than Bisichi, and that Thungela will make a profit of around £1bn in 2022, whereas Bisichi will make c. £50m?

The reason why the two companies are mentioned in the same sentence is that whilst Thungela is certainly crazy cheap, Bisichi is valued at just 1/60th of Thungela.

Basically, Thungela is crazy, but Bisichi is 3 times crazier.

Tiger179 - you misread the question.

Richt9999 asked who the 'they' are who you referred to when you asked 'why do they never learn'.

If you bought London and Associated plc for its market cap (currently £17m), you would get 41.5% of the c. £50m 2022 balance sheet of Bisichi plc, with a net £40m of property assets thrown in to sweeten the deal.

That's £60m of (enormously profitable) assets, all for £17m. I've never seen anything like it.

It is beyond extraordinary that there are speculative tech companies trading on 2022 PEs of way over 100, and simultaneously mining companies trading on 2022 PE or between 0.5 and 2. Particularly so given that there is a far higher chance of the mining companies still being in business in 10 years.

Thungela is incredible because of its size and liquidity. With a near 50% dividend, it beggars belief.

But if anyone can find something cheaper than Bisichi, which will make a profit this year of around £50m, but has a market cap of just £30m, I would love to hear about it.

You say burning cash, but on quick look, cash hardly moved between December 21 and June 22?

Well, you know what H1 was at less than $270, so add a chunk to that.

What does a Norwegian gas pipe have to do with a South African coal price?

It seems that the markets struggle to comprehend how wrongly mining companies are currently priced.

Take two companies, Thungela Resources plc and Oxford Nanopore plc. Both currently have markets caps of around £2bn.

Thungela sells a product that is not going away in the next 20 years, and for which global demand is at an all-time high.

Oxford Nano, a fine company, is developing some sexy may or may not become globally significant. The jury is out.

There is one key difference, and that is that Oxford Nano will make a loss of a couple of hundred million pounds this year (and for the foreseeable future), whereas Thungela will make a profit of around £1bn this year, and there is no reason to think it won't repeat that next year.

If I had to choose one, I would say Thungela is by far the most like to still be around in 20 years.

I don't know the answer to the question, but how many companies in the FTSE100 will make a profit of £1bn this year?

I think you are reading way way too much into the correlation between Dutch TTF prices and RB coal prices.

Over the last 12 months, Dutch TTF has oscillated in a very tight range of $100 to $150, with a brief upwards between late July and late September.

RB API4 Coal has been on a very much wilder ride, and unlike TTF, is currently double what it was a year ago.

I am sure I read Thungela saying exports will be unaffected because they had sufficient stock at RB to continue loading at all times.

A fair question, and there is no single answer. Pretty much every line in the accounts has moved positively (I assume you have looked at the H1 figures?). It will be interesting to see what happens to cash at year end as there was hardly any debt to pay down in the first place.

Bisichi doesn't just mine and sell coal. They have a coal processing plant, and a history of investing the proceeds from mining in property and other non-cash assets, sometimes co-owned with London and Associated Properties plc (which iteslf owns 41.5% of Bisichi).

In many ways I think the two companies are best thought of as one, and it can be argued that LAS is even cheaper as it's market cap of £16m is pretty much pro rata the value of its shares in Bisichi, on top of which you get a £40m (net) property portfolio thrown in as a bonus.

I hold both.

I certainly am, Beza, yes.

Ultimately, it is how it works.

I find this fascinating:

I own about 1/500th of Bisichi, or around £60k of shares at today's price.

If the company makes a profit of £50m this year (my best guess), my share of that profit is £100k.

All things considered, that's total madness. I only wish those buys this morning could have been me...

Unless they are American, saying that daytraders (or any traders) don't trade on what is only an American holiday makes absolutely no sense at all.

Worldwide?

I buy all I can of both while they are so cheap, Beza.

Thungela on a 2022 p/e of around 1.5 is incredible.

Bisichi is on about 0.5, so even more ridiculous.

The only comparative restraints on Bisichi v Thungela being their minimalist communications (with a curious exception in June), and limited share liquidity.

It will be very interesting to see what the dividend policy is at year end.

They are quite capable of paying pounds rather than pence if they choose.