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A government announcement ''conventional domestic gas boiler to be banned by 2025''. The average home gas boiler uses around 100kw/h per day for home and water heating. I've not done the maths. but multiply that by 25m homes in the UK and the additional electricity generation, including electric cars would be off the scale. In addition the transmission system could not support that level of demand by a factor of 100. Obviously this would require storage capacity. Is anybody looking at this from a realistic view point.
Agree Faramog, 100MW systems are a totally different league and hundreds of shipping containers will not get planning permission and the technical requirements to connect the units to a substation is not viable on a number of fronts, the only answer is a bespoke building, I have discussed this with RED on a number of times even offered to meet with them to present out line designs I had worked on with previous battery manufactures with no interest. Or should I say understanding. REDt would have a great market space in retro fitting all the first solar and wind projects around the 10 - 20MW generation. These plants need load shifting to maintain their viability.
umm and they are all ready up
I am not focusing on the system and its configuration I am taking that has a done deal from the previous seeding units. However the seeding unit was installed and commissioned at a holiday home, this is very different from taking a front line business offline and installing a fully operational system, which from day one at a specified time deliver 100%. This is stepped up again when integrated in to a DNO sub-station with thousands of customers supplied from that sub-station. REDt would need installation and commissioning partners, they would not have that skill set waiting around. If they do they will be burning money at one hell of a rate.
To stay on the optimistic side with a positive spin, I do hope RED have secured the services of good quality installation and commissioning contractors particularly on outage critical sites, like water or production lines. The installation of this plant covers a number of specialist skill sets, from the delivery of the units in restricted areas like substations where cranage is very constrained, to the installation of concrete foundations, cabling in and out to major electrical plant requiring power outages to the final commissioning and integration in to the protection and earthing systems. This in many cases can cost has much as the flow plant in complex sites. Anyway lets make the sale first.....
Well done Merlottheboy, I too have topped up and lowered my average to 6p. I am still convinced the pipeline and current projects at tender stage will convert to hard sales. The real work then begins to deliver, install and commision the product whilst under power outage conditions on an industrial scale. Again time will tell.
Can this get any worse. Well guys remember the start of the year, here are the predictions, just to add to the gloom. Looks like Knuttie and Sbuild are calling the shots
MassiveRay 1.00
MattTheBrave 2.2
knuttie 3.0
Sbuild 5.0
SCoutS 5.5 (Special reset option)
fatbanker 5.9
James2708 6.2
Aletank 7.0
SGD27 7.5
MrMustard 8.0
4kandles 8.50
Jim3 9.0
David1951c 9.75
Fagen39 10.0
yellowf1 10.5
ianous 11.0
hopefull1954 11.75
Doncaster 12.0
fleetfoot 13.0
dorsetknob1965 14.0
Electrochem 14.25
Baskerbygum 14.5
bongabob 14.75 (2018 WINNER)
somnambulist 15.0
Merlottheboy 15.25
NMS1966 15.50
mjb606 16.10
Dunekiller 16.40
AlanFes 17.0
Piltick 17.25
VirtualMoney 17.75
dennisbeh 18.00
Erector1 18.20
hotchips 18.82
Sahid 20.0
Yeoman 21.0
jamesss 21,2
Pinecone54 22.0
AIMforprofit 24.0
Faramog 25.0 (2018 Joint winner after reset SP)
bobf 27.0
quanglewangle 28.0
Kiwi058 32.0
Bolgas 34.0
terof 35.0
Mikemine 40.0
Element 45.0
Cheek212 88.0
I understand your comments and appreciate your bitterness Sbuild, however this technology and complex market is always slow to respond and implement. The UK electricity market is going through the biggest revolution / evolution since the construction of the National Grid (1950). Inbrief moving away from local small generation 100MW + and distribution up to 132kV to large 1000MW + and Transmission from 275 - 400kV with national standardised power frequency (50Hz). The UK over the past 15 years has implemented of 20GW of renewable generation including its transmission into the National grid. We are now removing 10GW of Coal generation planning another 8GW of load from Electric cars at the same time keeping the lights on. Storage construction and integration is now well underway, hopefully RED will get a slice of the market. I am confident it will in the UK and abroad.
Well Guys that's January over, and this share if flatter than a witches tit. Hopefully February will see at least double figures. SBuild if leading the charge, hopefully not for long.......
MassiveRay 1.00
MattTheBrave 2.2
knuttie 3.0
Sbuild 5.0
SCoutS 5.5 (Special reset option)
fatbanker 5.9
James2708 6.2
Aletank 7.0
SGD27 7.5
MrMustard 8.0
4kandles 8.50
Jim3 9.0
David1951c 9.75
Fagen39 10.0
yellowf1 10.5
ianous 11.0
hopefull1954 11.75
Doncaster 12.0
fleetfoot 13.0
dorsetknob1965 14.0
Electrochem 14.25
Baskerbygum 14.5
bongabob 14.75 (2018 WINNER)
somnambulist 15.0
Merlottheboy 15.25
NMS1966 15.50
mjb606 16.10
Dunekiller 16.40
AlanFes 17.0
Piltick 17.25
VirtualMoney 17.75
dennisbeh 18.00
Erector1 18.20
hotchips 18.82
Sahid 20.0
Yeoman 21.0
jamesss 21,2
Pinecone54 22.0
AIMforprofit 24.0
Faramog 25.0 (2018 Joint winner after reset SP)
bobf 27.0
quanglewangle 28.0
Kiwi058 32.0
Bolgas 34.0
terof 35.0
Mikemine 40.0
Element 45.0
Cheek212 88.0
Hi PineCone there was the followig Reuters update
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-energy-coal-factbox/factbox-german-coal-fired-power-capacity-under-review-idUSKCN1PK0KC
They have a similar capacity to the UK and the same problem when they start to use electric cars all pushing towards a storage solution.
Well done to you Mikemine for walking the talk. I will update all shortly, a number of storage tenders have just arrived for bidding. There certainly is no need for additional wind or solar farms until the storage technology is installed and tested. The UK has installed and operational 20GW of windfarm generation. Check out the website www.gridwatch this shows real time UK demand and the mix of generation. A major problem with wind and solar farm generation apart from the lack of control due to weather conditions is the fluctuation during generation. This is where storage can provide added control.
Hi maxwellsmart, its not as simple as that. Each of the technologies has advantages, however the VRTB technology is starting to become the preferred solution. I can't give you a footprint and storage capacity in MWH comparison for each of the technologies. The earlier posts with the large storage buildings in China show that VRTB technology is the way ahead. The VRTB technology is winning on the cycle times and duration. Without doubt the UK is decommissioning some 9GW of coal fired power stations and adding a further 7GW of electric vehicles in the next 5 years, we certainly need to make some decisions very soon.
Totally agree quanglewangle, WPD has the biggest problem in the UK since there is the most sun and the windfarms are land based with a smaller generation capacity. I know a number of guys in WPD and there is a big effort to go for a storage solution. Its the wind and solar farm operators that need convincing, the government needs to adjust the tariffs to make storage financially viable.
Mikemine in the UK the windfarm would be offshore, The UK wind turbines are now around 3 - 5MW units with an efficiency of around 20%. Each unit, rule of thumb, is radially around 150 - 200m from its neighbor so the area to feed a plant of that size would be several acres.
Great post superzero8 and reinforces by statement no sign of a shipping container but a purpose built building. The building will enable safe maintenance of the tanks and switchgear also temperature and fire management of the plant. How many Redt batteries would be required to meet that capacity.
Hi Mikemine, Size if not a problem until you don't have enough space or there are strict planning rules which apply to the point of generation. The REDT equipment will be located at the solar of wind farm site to connect to the point of connection, which may be a cable or overhead line. The units are stackable however depending on the unit mass foundation design must be considered. Again there will be planning issues in a number of areas because they are considered a permanent building.
Hi Bolgas No I am not aware of project of this size. For projects of 400MWH these would need a National Grid transmission connection at 275kV.
Hi 13thmonkey, In places such as Aus agree no problem with space. Doubling the height is not feasible since REDT are using off the shelf containers.
In the UK I foresee the first early generation solar and land based wind farms sites are good pickings for the REDt solution. There is sufficient land to support a REDT solution based om MWH / footprint and generation. The transmission infrastructure is all in place. Check out the WPD load generation profile and they have problems due to peak generation load around midday and problems around the peak time at 6.00PM. Why aren't the DNO's moving with storage technology
Guys some good posts here not just about the electrical technology but the whole life cycle. The other issue concerning the size is the MW Hours this will have a direct effect on size. To state the obvious double the hour maximum discharge and recharge will double the footprint. If the electrical technology is ticking all the boxes then where is the hold up to close out the orders????????????
Guys before we go for world domination lets get real. Redt employs under 100 people with a couple of support companies. The market is still undecided on the storage technology. So talking about GWh schemes are years away. This technology is good for the up to 10MWh range based on not just the vanadium but the whole package.