Ben Richardson, CEO at SulNOx, confident they can cost-effectively decarbonise commercial shipping. Watch the video here.
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I will be joining you Dan, fingers crossed they are good, lse says 16th may hl says 17th so not sure
Hi Rob. When are the results? I need to make sure I have got a bottle of the hard stuff ready just in case?
I get that Dan, that it,s good to know if the company is under or over valued, but also investers will want to know what the company is doing to reduce debt and increase profits, so let's hope we also get some good results to push the price up as well
The best attempt at putting a sum of the parts calculation on VOD came from GLTader on 23rd March.
Of course, believing the company is undervalued is what keeps us all here otherwise we'd have all been long gone.
Personally, i think this high inflation environment is perfect for VOD and other telecoms. They must be rubbing their hands with glee with the prospect of increasing prices 9% from 1st April. Whilst the next update won't show the positive impact of this and actually believe 2022 is our year of reckoning for all the painful long term holders of this share.
What all kicked this off was firstly meshtrader's over the top suggestion that the stock market is all crooked & controlled by cowboys, crooked banks etc & suggesting vod is way undervalued. Of course the stockmarket is not a charity & far from perfect. This was then followed by mole-man trying to swing the pendulum the way with his figure of 1.24. & his debt figure of 85billion euro. I thank mole for at least to trying explain these figures, but his figures make no sense I feel. As for robleo's comment that vod is worth what the sp says it is, that may be true, but I thought the whole point of investing is trying to work out if a company is under valued, which is what many are trying to do. Sounds though like you, (robleo) have given up on that one, I can't say I blame you, but you can't blame some for at least trying. Bad day today so far of course, but lets hope it recovers. As I have said before many just come up with whatever figures suite there argument best?!
they need to sell australia and spain and italy and india
Surely it's only worth what the markets price it at each day ? That's what matters for anyone wanting to buy or sell, no matter how much you try and dress it up or down
"Moleman, I've scanned through the FY 21 Annual report and Gross debt was €(56,169), with Net debt reported as €(42,047)"
Correction, they were FY20 figures, FY21 figures are lower:
Gross Debt €(52,519) million. (€52.519 Billion)
Net Debt €(40,543) million. (€40.543 Billion)
I don't see any chance of Vodafone breaking up, I just don't understand Moleman's €85 Billion figure. Moleman, if you're correct you should list the various components, with figures, adding up to make your total.
"For the debt remaining to be paid off of €85bn, add together long term debt, short term debt and trade and payables."
Moleman, I've scanned through the FY 21 Annual report and Gross debt was €(56,169), with Net debt reported as €(42,047). Should Vodafone break up, Lease Liabilities are part of the forward looking overall cost of doing business, and spread out over many years, so the €13.032 Billion lease liabilities wouldn't be counted as debt in a break up. If Vodafone broke up, the purchaser(s) would want to run the various businesses on a stand alone basis, and the relevant lease liabilities would be attached, to the relevant business, as part of the deals.
In summary, lease liabilities wouldn't be considered as part of Gross debt, and neither would depreciation, so the only relevant figures are Gross and Net Debt.
Hello all.
You can download VOD 2021 report from investor relations for the balance sheet.
I did include the cash of €5bn at the time. Assumed that all other assets would be bought up in the sale deals.
For the debt remaining to be paid off of €85bn, add together long term debt, short term debt and trade and payables. That’s debt you owe your suppliers. The purchaser won’t want it or will want to knock down the price if you want to pass it on.
I ignored all the other liabilities, but you may not be able to pass those on so the final figure would be lower. Also ignored any tax consequences in the sale which will further erode the final sum.
In conclusion, investors won’t do well from a break up unless purchasers overpay by double, which could happen in a very bullish market. Not today then.
Sorry my cash figure held by vod was wrong, but still a considerable amount & should obviously be taken into account. I did see a figure of 13 billion euro's, but that may be an old figure?
As of H1 FY22, Closing Net debt was €m(44,298). I also don't see where 85.8 billion euro comes from either.
Free cash flow was negative on H1 FY22, at €m(983), but will hopefully be positive for full year results
Hello mole. You forgot to add on the cash that vod would still have of about 15 to 25 billion, what happened to that? Of course the cash isn't sold as you said, obviously kept by the vod shareholders. Come on mole? think about it please?
mole, thank you for that, but I am not sure where you get this debt of 85.8 billion euro from? I suspect though it includes liabilities of about 35 billion which is obviously not the same as debt. I think though we should agree, that mesh was confusing the matter with his asset valuation? Of course as to vod's valuation your 1.24 is spot on according to the L.S.E. share price, but that is obvious, many on here though think it is undervalued. It all comes down to the value of the intangible assets, which as the name implies are intangible, & also the liabilities, which of course as the word also implies, can't be fully evaluated at the moment. I do think many just come up whatever figures suite there argument? I am looking for figures from both sides, because it is the only way to get anywhere near the answer?! cheers.
Sure Dan. I make the assumption that in this scenario the parts of the business are sold for £100bn. That is assets/staff that make that part work, brands that go with it etc etc. The cash is not sold, why buy cash €1 for €1. This gives a pot of €125bn at today's ex rate.
When the parts were sold, the debt was not sold with it. You therefore have to pay off the actual debt, not the net debt. Total actual debt is €85.8bn (long term plus short term plus trade and payables). Leaves €39.2bn or £32.9bn. Divide by shares outstanding actually gets £1.16 a share. I did not account for trade and payables first time round, but think it likely the buyer of a part will not buy the trade debts. If they do they'll pay less.
It's just an exercise and 10 analysts will give you 10 different answers, but I think you'll find they'll be around the current share price was my point, not some value 100% higher. For a sale of the parts that is.
A takeover would be different, but I think any buyer would conclude with all that debt, it's fully priced already.
Hello mole-man. Please can you tell where you get this £1.24 from. If they sell the parts for 100 billion, pay off net debt of 40billion, that equals 60billion, then divide that by the number of shares, which is 27 billion, you end up with £2.22. per share. Apart from the 100 billion for the parts, the other figures ,I just googled, so I think they are correct. As for the 100 billion for the parts, well who knows where that comes from, but it is the figure you used to somehow get to this figure of £1.24. I would be very obliged if you could tell me how you worked it out. Thank's mole.
Hello mole-man. Please can you tell where you get this £1.24 from. If they sell the parts for 100 billion, pay off net debt of 40billion, that equals 60billion, then divide that by the number of shares, which is 27 billion, you end up with £2.22. per share. Apart the 100 billion for the parts, the other figures I just googled, so I think they are correct. As for the 100 billion for the parts, well who knows where that comes from, but it is the figure you used to somehow get to this figure of £1.24. I would be very obliged if you could tell me how you worked it out. Thank's mole.
Fred Rubble. I thought were being rude with your post at 1st, but very funny. You sound like a man though, but hopefully not a mole? (A cave man perhaps). Yabba Dabba Doo.
I did expect the sp to fall today, so I am pleased at the moment, but still worried, lets hope for a good week. I am still baffled however by the big fall after bank of America's downgrade.
feeling confident with 118.45 even though this SP choice has been sandwiched by a ...man and a ...boy!!
Be an interesting week. Was down 1.5% in usa at one point, then up 2.26% after hours. Markets can't quite decide what to do at the moment.
Lots of low predictions this week, Is there nobody out there who can go lower than the evil mole-man? boo-hiss!!
Vod Nasdaq , closed 15.06 usd, but after hours trading showing +2.26% now lets hope % goes higher
Prediction Guesses for 06/05/22
well what next week north or south ?
best of luck all, hope it's not in the 118s will take forever working out who the winner is ?
robleo 1.29
offmessage 1.32
daniel 1.26
FredRubble 118.45
mole_man99 1.18
sotonspike 130
csdi 1.23
cheapsharesboy 118.5
Scratch49 1.20