Listen to our latest Investing Matters Podcast episode 'Uncovering opportunities with investment trusts' with The AIC's Richard Stone here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
@Croissant - I'll try and get down to it. Tuesday is going to be tight so no promises.
ATB LB
Thank you Croissant, that helps put my mind at ease. Let's hope it all goes well for us at the meeting. Have yourself a good weekend.
Correction - next meeting is the 14th May 2024
Kind regards
@gingy - better to look on the bright side, IMO. Don't suffer twice, mate.
Is there anyone on this discussion board who could attend the Parish Council meeting? It would be useful to gauge the mood and see if the EA or TWL are present, and if so what their contributions are.
As LB has mentioned TWL have launched a community relations drive so they are aware of the importance of this and are trying to build positive relationships with the local community. But don't forget 200-300 jobs will be very positive for that community once TWL reopen Hemerdon.
The common theme of concern from both the EA and the PC is that of pollution from Hemerdon operations. If TWL can assuage those fears and concerns about the past pollution issues and demonstrate (very important criteria) that things will now be managed properly eg they have solutions identified to prevent a reoccurrence, and that they will be actively monitoring to ensure these issues should they reoccur will be dealt with swiftly; then despite grumblings from either or both parties the permit will be issued.
The way that the SLT at TWL have approached this project since Gawthorpe took over has been keenly targeted at the issues of importance, and finding a way through the maze of red tape and the public relations nightmare left by WOLF. I think that the people in charge at TWL are first class individuals with a track record fully capable of getting that mine operational. Not only that, they do have solutions to the pollution concerns raised, they will have active monitoring and they do have a range of contingency measures available to deploy to further reduce their environmental footprint if needed.
The case that TWL are making to reopen that mine is very strong. However, it's a guaranteed certainty that there will be grumbling at every stage in this project. Hopefully though there wont ever be too many grumbles to prevent it reaching fruition.
Lets see what happens on the 22nd. ATB
@gingy
Not complete oversight. There has been an active community engagement program targeted at Sparkwell, Cornwood, Shaugh Prior, Colebrook in recent weeks. At least an attempt is being made imo.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tungsten-west-limited_we-are-excited-to-invite-you-to-join-us-at-activity-7180831329477890048-6uW7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android
ATB LB
Good morning all. I don't think the problem lies with EA, it lies with the parish. If there's enough signatures this is dead in the water. It's a big oversight on their behalf.
@RDB - another excellent find - you can see from that email that in November the TWL team are stressing to the EA the importance of urgently issuing the draft permit. It only took another 3 months for the lovely EA to issue it. We are at the mercy of these regulators until they give their nod of approval. Given the the CMS you would have hoped Central Government would have streamlined these applications to fast track these projects. Nevertheless decision time is here. If the EA baulk again then I think they'll just hold the project under till it drowns, but I don't see that as the outcome. The EA are out of excuses and soon to be out of time in making taking decision, and as they are minded to grant the permit, without substantial reasons not to, they will issue the permit.
WOLF certainly soiled the bed linen with this type of behaviour. However, reporting in these papers tends to sensationalise. It's understandable that the locals are worried and why the EA are being so cautious. WOLF caused serious pollution issues. TWL had better manage their plant substantially more professionally than WOLF did otherwise they'll cause an uproar. You must expect as well that those badly affected last time will be very sensitive to its operation. All that said I cant anything here to prevent reopening.
@RDB - This is interesting from a timing perspective. There is an outside chance that the Parish Council meeting on the 22nd April may have resulted in a submission to the EA. There's a 10day window for action. However, if you're keeping up with these comms you'll recall that I contacted the EA on the 7th and queried the date change on the MPF permit application. During that call they revealed that the decision to extend the deadline had been taken 6 days earlier and as I said, I was told it was due to a couple of LFN docs which hadn't been circulated. If we take that as an honest answer the delay to the 30th will have nothing to do with the Parish Council.
It would be interesting to see if either TWL or the EA were present at that meeting on the 22nd, and now that the Parish Council website is up and running again, whether they'll attend the next meeting on the 14th May where Hemerdon mine is item 9 on the agenda.
@RDB - excellent sleuthing there. Another piece of the puzzle. For those of a nervous disposition, remember: this was approved. ATB
Morning all. The more I read about this, with regards to the parish council, it sounds to me that they don't want it on their doorsetep. This will never happen. We should have been made aware of this. I've been a developer for many years, and take it from me, if you haven't got the parish council on your side your basically stuffed.
Sparkwell Parish Council
ยท
---PLEASE NOTE--- Time is running out to submit responses. If you wish to make a comment please submit via the Planning Portal ( https://planning.devon.gov.uk/PlanDisp.aspx?AppNo=DCC/4365/2023 ) prior to 30th November 2023.
Sparkwell Parish Council have also created an Objection Form to aid Parishioners should they wish to comment on the current Tungsten West planning application. Please follow the link below.
OK, last post, https://www.facebook.com/sparkwellpc/?locale=en_GB see posts. Sparkwell Parish Council website seems to be down so I cant get the minutes I read. But I did go off and find the companies that the counsellors work on/for and that was interesting - one in particular sits as a director of 23 local companies (not TW), I was trying to find if parish members sat on the boards of the other mines/conflict of interest etc
OK, wanted to bookmark. Here are 4, in each case i then took info, names and then went off down routes looking for more, esp opposition on LFN, concerns etc.
2015 Noise - Living Hell
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-34707712
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3297754/Bad-vibrations-Couple-forced-home-rumbles-bodies-shake-uncontrollably.html
2018 Parish
https://www.shaughpriorparish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/209_567889359.pdf
2021 reopening concern
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/villagers-fear-hemerdon-tungsten-mine-5415785
Will have to do it over weekend, I found a bunch but did not save. I do seem to remember it was Wolf posts and it was low frequency noise - I think it made some people quite unwell and that was the cause of the issue. One like this, that caused me to go backwards. https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/psc/pl7-5bw-drakelands-restoration-limited2/supporting_documents/Application%20Bespoke%20%2024.11.2023%20Request%20for%20Information%20Response.pdf
My looking went down two routes - truck movements and noise and what was there from past parish meetings and my mates views locally
- I get the bigger trucks, less movement and thats Wolf/Tungsten W. What I was looking at was the area as a whole - and I could not find anything about the other 4 or 5 mines grouped, therefore all the trucks that a local village would contend with and i doubt they would know who was who - just 200 a day from all 5 potentially. I was wondering if those other mines had more lenient (past agreed0 movements.
- I dug around on the noise as there was one or two parish posts and will post - busy today
- So opposition groups did not come up, but all it takes is one from the parish to say 'it will be like Wolf'
Anyway, will have a dig on the weekend
Just for perspective. WBB and Imerys et al have been operating China Clay operations in this area (Wotter, Lee Moor, Cadover) for DECADES . As a whipper snapper I went to the Cadover mine in the early 80s on a school field trip. These guys have been moving product out by road via the Plympton / Borringdon route.... There's no other way. Mineral extraction is part of the fabric of this area.
I guess the issue is in the increase in volume, but clay has provided revenue and employment as a local industry. For all the opposition noted there is also likely some element of support.
ATB LB
@LB - I checked back. These are foundational documents. The later reports are later revisions of these original docs; upgraded info; upgraded methods. Good find though as you can see the back and forth leading to the latest (hopefully last) iteration. ATB.
@RubDeBhudda - thanks for the insights.
The trucks movements were initially applied for as a variation to the planning dept as opposed to the EA. They ended up increasing the load size and keeping the existing 50 truck movements, and it was approved. They can apply for other variations at a later date if they need to.
I was really looking to see if the the locals were sufficiently upset with the WOLF operation to form opposition groups who might input their discontent into the EA process. It looks like we're relatively free from that. Mind you there's 200-300 jobs on the line - which I suspect is going to be a big boost to the local economy.
You mention links? If you can share that would be much appreciated. ATB
Croissant, meant to sent this last weekend but time etc. Also work in Blue Chip, but SaaS for legal. I do not live locally but your post last week made me go hunting as I do know a lot of consultants at Derriford who live in Noss Mayo etc and surrounding east side of Plymouth and near the TUN facility.
- Plenty of links about the local view of truck movements - many not happy with the ask of increase and from planning applications, local parish minutes etc this has always been a big issue, so I assume during the consultation they may well have spoken up. I can't find anything concrete but if you look at google maps and some of the legacy mines in the area there are a lot on a small space all concentrated onto some minor roads and a few choke points - you can imagine being a resident and seeing an aplication for a 4x increase - whilst other mines/operations have already been moving trucks. Would be interesting and I could not find, what permits are granted to all those other mines regarding no of trucks (who knows what was granted back 10, 15, 20 years or more back)
- What was interesting is the devolved authority down to the parish level - these are educated people who can have a very strong opinion on things - not in my back yard etc. and Whitehall unless they press the 'needed for war button' do not have control. Looking at parish notes back to when Wolf was operating clearly they had to appease many of these parish councils - and what might be best for industry/country may not come out for the sake of quiet roads and low vibrations
- Todays comments have been interesting. Sadly I agree with many that what is best for innovation and growth seems stifled as we allow decisions made not out of what is best but a local view
This was more in answer to your post about 'anybody local with knowledge' and I found a bunch of links to previous complaints re truck and low freqency noise
-
Hi all,
Sorry I'm short on time right now and don't have the time to dig properly... If you look at my last post the second link was to a previous noise report. From memory some of what's been discussed here today is covered in that document. I may be remembering it wrong but a quick scan would be worthwhile. IIRC operations were planned to be reduced overnight anyway. The noise levels were very close to thresholds.
Sorry again but I'm too busy to drill into it right now to help out. Just pointing out there's a lot of info from previous studies that may allow an assessment of the delta to the latest results.
20 days to go till this is put to bed one way or another. Fingers crossed the EA are still "minded" to rubber stamp this.
ATB LB
Croissant I will heed your sage advice. All good things and all that.
@ News5 - relax mate, it'll be fine.
A good lesson indeed but are people looking for solutions to problems the EA don't believe exist. As an investor, of course I have got a vested interest in seeing this project get the green light. So i hope you can understand a certain degree of frustration when people appear to be looking for glitches in a seemingly (to the EA) acceptable processing facility.
@ Gingy - relax mate, it'll be fine. But if you feel you must, gird your loins.
When I first started working in big blue chip companies I was tasked to do a study modelling hazards in a petrochemical plant. I distinctly remember walking into my boss's office (Mr Baguette) and reeling off a long list of problems I'd found. Rather sharply he responded "Croissant, don't give me problems. Give me solutions!" and with that I sulked off in search of solutions. A good lesson to learn, it stuck with me.
Clearly that ethos hasn't reached the mining sector, yet.
ATB