Stephan Bernstein, CEO of GreenRoc, details the PFS results for the new graphite processing plant. Watch the video here.
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Thanks all for input, HXUL does raise interesting points, if we say that Thar paid 93m (subscribing to additional shares, not buying out other holders at ridiculous premiums), to acquire 8.7% of a company they previously owned 66% of, wouldn't this mean 61.4m went to Thar in the sense that it would be in K H accounts owned by Tharisa and 31m would effectively belong to whomever else, im not speaking exact numbers it's the concept that im wondering about. If im correct Thar in essence paid 31m for 8.6% of KH giving KH a valuation of 362m. There are unanswered questions, exactly where are the funds going? Tharisa is transferring funds to subsidiary, the question is how is the subsidiary using those funds, such as mine build out or is this as HUXL indicates possibly some kind of money syphoning scheme. Are the funds going to KH as i expect or is some minority holder being bought out at a ridiculous premium?
I don't know what you want Ilja to say. It's quite plain that the injection of $65m into Karo Holdings to increase their holding from 70 to 75% values Karo at $325m. I agree, if they had bought the 5% off Leto for $65m it would value Karo at $1.3bn...but they didn't, they put the money into Karo and that's a different calculation. I don't think it's Ilja's job to teach PI's how do valuation...lol.
Thanks Mike
Under the new ZEV legislation starting in January UK car sellers selling over 2,500 cars/year have to sell a minimum 22% ZEV cars otherwise they are fined £15,000 per car. the 22% gradually increases to 80% by 2030. Car producers are allowed to trade surplus ZEV credits so the likes of Tesla/Polestar can sell 78% of their credits to other producers at a price to be negotiated. So that 16% ZEV's in 2023 should be nearer 22% this year and steadily going up.
Ilja is the IR department and I am sure that Tharisa want to carefully consider and professionally write their response before replying to us.
Regarding your question Moneyman64, the reef of mine in the last quarterly figures was still pretty low so they continue to buy in substantial ore for processing ,but with the new waste contractors in place and the new realignment of the mining pattern particularly the dramatic improvement in stripping ration for the remainder of the above ground ROM I am expecting the ROM will start to improve and by the end of the year be back to the levels we saw 18-24 months ago.
@ 09:03 - Sentiments echoed. Limited knowledge here although I do know a bit about GreatDyke. THS's products are globally essential but recovery is some time off. Vasbyt.
Has anyone actually contacted the company with points raised and asked for clarity. Posting on a chat site asking for llja to come along and explain on the basis hes has posted information is hopeful at best.. llja could be ill, on holiday, otherwise engaged. Instructed to stop posting and communicate via official channels.
If your concerned about any aspect of transactions that are covered in the accounts contact the company, IR etc.
Sadly I have remained fully invested only adding over the years, I still haven’t sold a share, other than a very few last autumn to help buy a new car. I was unaware of the Karo share purchases posted here with notes to accounts, it is not me who posted these and the questions, so criticize them if you want. I have never claimed to have the sort of knowledge many on this board have, which is partly why I am keen Ilja explain what all this actually is, as I expect there may be a simple company accounting explanation and they do not rally value Karo at over a billion when buying shares, he is usually so forward so a bit worrying on top of the somewhat scary posts. I still have all 542501 which have halved. Have never shorted wouldn’t know how. I correct only on things I know about like world ev sales and how marginal changes can have a multiplier effect on PGM prices. I have been right about falling PGMs but hold for the wonders of chromium that has so far survived the Chines slowdown well. Just want Ilja to explain the posts that have come this week to me as beyond my knowledge level. All best and I appreciate all views and questions here, this board is not just to ramp shares but for the knowledgable who have posted this week to illuminate us about worries too, and for Ilja to comment on these as well as the positive. Thanks and good luck all
Could you stop posting Sotolo until you buy back in or close your short? Not at all interested in this shorters whinging over something that was previously announced, thank you.
Cheers
Quick question -last year gross profit percentage was adversely affected by large amounts of chrome material purchases due to problems processing own material.
Has this continued this financial year or has the company reverted to mostly processing its own material -big impact on profit?
Shares still gently falling, still no Ilja?
A. Sadly UK is not a large part of world car market
B. China is around 40% for all plug ins and 26% for bev’s
C. A marginal difference to demand with similar supply makes. Big difference in price and this is a very large difference in demand even in a growing market
UK car sales by fuel type 2023 (Until the end of November)
Percentage of new petrol, diesel and electric passenger car sales (source: SMMT)
Fuel type Market share
Petrol 41%
Diesel 4%
Hybrid* 39%
Pure electric 16%
So only 16% of new UK cars (Pure Electric) contain no PGM catalytic converter!
Hybrid* = Mild hybrid petrol, Mild hybrid diesel, Plug-in hybrid, Self-charging hybrid
Looks to me like a load of PI's have given up the game at the very bottom of the cycle. May be some downside still but we'll see.
The WPIC have been “Bigging up” huge platinium deficits for months yet no sign of the price moving up.significantly-in fact in free fall today -palladium too!
Thanks, but the world platinum investment council would say that…
Https://platinuminvestment.com/files/855484/WPIC_Platinum_Essentials_December_2023.pdf
Tharisa CEO on you tube today (see JLP board)
Worth a listen too but does seem to state future of PGMs prices reliant on hydrogen economy taking off and defiantly not positive on palladium..interest rates need to fall and economies recover
A few pi,s have thrown the towel in today, several on the twitter group lost patience. Once a couple sell others also jump ship. Its the same in the opposite direction, pi,s move in herds.
Im not happy with the sp but will keep taking the divis and await a recovery rather than realise a loss.
All this debate has achieved is to wipe another £12 million off the desperately low shareprice -now an obvious bid target or to be taken private .
Common on Bod it must be time to spend a few millions on share buybacks -£10 million is a very small number in relation to the overall financial position of the company and would do wonders for the shareprice -and please don’t say this is not possible due to Karo -it clearly is
Hxulcolrdoh
I think you're missing the point. Because THS own the majority of Karo Holdings (KH), it doesn't much matter what valuation they place on the shares.
Suppose KH was valued at $325m pre fund raise. THS owns 70% so it's stake is worth £227.5m. THS injects £65m for another 5% so KH is now worth $390m. THS now owns 75% so it's stake is worth $292.5m (amazingly $65m more; the amount it injected).
However let's suppose KH was only worth $125m pre fund raise. THS owns 70% so it's stake is worth £87.5m. THS injects £65m for 5% so KH is now worth $190m. THS now owns 75% so it's stake is worth $142.5m ($55m more; but only $10m less than it injected).
Ilja, are you there when we need you or only when we don’t? Your absence wouldn’t be so concerning if you were not usually anything but silent. Please enlighten
After studying the numbers again I NOW agree with hxulcolrdol that his is just looking at the Tharisa percentage shareholding in Karo Mining so his numbers are correct and that they this ALREADY allow for the dilution effect described by stemis.
But now the issued share numbers look strange. On 2nd June 2022 we are told Karo Mining issued an additional 44 new ordinary share for a cash subscription of $9.9m [$225,000 each] ,the additional shares issued represented 1.29% of the issued share capital of Karo Mining {inferring 3411 shares in total}
on 10th Aug 2022 another 45 new share are issued for a cash subscription of $10.2m [$226,667 each] representing 1.22% of the issued share capital {now inferring 3689 share in total].
But then on30th June 2023 Karo issues an additional 3,800 new ordinary shares for $27.3m ( now only $7184 each] which represents 2.33% of the issued shares [now inferring 163,090 shares} why the big change?
Just shows how complicated the numbers are if we cannot agree on them!
Hi SteMis,
I'll explain the problem of the $93.7m for 8.7%.
If a company valued at $100m is jointly owned by A(75%) and B(25%) has to raise $100m then both A and B should put their hands in their pocket to the tune of $75m and $25m respectively. Post transaction their share of the larger enterprise remains the same.
However if the burden of the raise fell entirely on A then post transaction A should own 87.5% of the larger enterprise while B should be diluted down to 12.5%
Suppose instead it was a $10000m company that needed to raise $100m and again the burden fell entirely to A. Then post transaction A would own 75.25% and B would own 24.75%.
If in the case of 'Karo Mine Holdings' an ABSURD initial valuation can be put on the original enterprise then B ('Medway Developments') can leave A (Tharissa) to one sidedly supply all the funds whilst suffering minimal dilution.
THIS IS PLAINLY WRONG!
I sold out of Tharisa yesterday for a different reason but I agree with Stemis here. Tharisa was always going to fund its share of capex into Karo through equity investment into Karo Holdings. It doesn't affect anything else and they will not exceed on their committed equity (of c$130m). I think Stemis has clarified this point really well.
Hxulcolrdoh,
Whether you agree with Tharisa developing Karo is another matter. I suspect the board is taking a long term view than just satisfying the desires of private investors to crystallise a short term profit on their shares. Whether they will be proved right I suspect neither you nor I can know with any certainty. However, if you truly believe that PGM mines have no value, then there's plenty of shares out there that you could short if that's your fancy.
My point was actually about the subscription for shares which is essentially the funding of the capital expenditure that is being expended on Karo. It's simply misleading not to recognise that the majority of the money being put into Karo Holdings is simply going from one pocket of Tharisa to another. They effectively still 'own' 75% of the cash they put into Karo Holdings.