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This is going on in the background. They are trying to get a global treaty by 2024. Huge amount of disagreement. There is the usual eco mob trying to ban plastic and those thinking that recycling is the answer.
Note the countries in the article that don’t want global rules imposed on them. It includes Saudi Arabia and India. There must be some hope that they will defend their position by saying we require a d2w type additive in our plastic. I just cannot see the oil rich countries or poor countries adopting anything other than the cheapest, most expedient measures. It will take decades to build meaningful recycling capacity in these countries and engender a culture of recycling (even if you think recycling is the answer). However, the chances of anything much sensible coming out of such a treaty are quite low.
https://www.politico.eu/article/un-global-plastic-treaty-talks-limp-despite-blockade-oil-rich-countries/
I did some work in India in the past so I know a little of the culture. Implementation of this type of legislation (plus enforcement) is what India is extremely bad at and is something that could quite easily take years. There is a tendency to get a rule out and then try and get consensus (always difficult in such a big country) rather than the other way around. So I am not that hopeful.
Although India would be a big leg up for SYM in terms of profile it is not that important near term financially - as it is aJV with SYM having only 46% and any profits in India get taxed at around 30%. I suspect margins also would be lower than the normal c40%. Every Rupee counts in India.
I think rather more important to SYM currently is the Middle East which seems to be going rather well and they anticipate to grow strongly this year. Whether the strong growth is more Laurier flannel we will have to see. They have also said that revenue in the Far East and South America showed more signs of stability.
They have been in the Middle East for a long time and in quite a few ways it has many of the difficult characteristics of doing business as India. It has taken time. However, it seems they may now have secured a decent footing.
This again
Having re watched Laurier’s filibuster on proactive investor again I wanted to dig around a little on the growth opportunity in India that he refers to. Came across the link below.
https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/government-muddle-over-biodegradable-plastic-stalls-manufacture/article66414513.ece/amp/
It’s not clear to me from what SYM have said and the situation outlined in this article how soon SYM India will get to a point where they are issued a possible temporary licence for D2W and biodegradable plastics production using this additive.
Indian bureaucracy is a nightmare at the best of times and government depts have got themselves seemingly in a potential impasse on this issue.
Something that I’ll be messaging SYM to clarify as I can’t quite buy into Lauriers confidence of near term resolution when the situation is described by local media in this way.
Granted that the story in the link is from Jan this year so things may have moved on. (Will find time to do a more comprehensive search for more up to date information).
If anyone has any clarity on this they can share then it would be much appreciated. Just trying to make sure that it’s not a case of more over optimism from our CEO on timeframes and size of market opportunity.
Many thanks
An announcement imminent?
Great if anyone who attends the AGM is open to giving feedback here.. not a big enough bet for me currently to take it that seriously.. but it might be in due course..
I have small topped up again here recently but still have a decent chunk set aside to do more serious top ups, if / as appropriate .... my instinct is this will rally decently in second half of 2023.. but good bottom line news would be the driver of that.. so bring on that - strong buy signal - good news very please Sym !!
Thanks Hounddog.. a good listen and I'm pretty excited.... obviously sundry meaningfully good news RNS's are now required in Q3 and q4 2023 .. here's hoping !
Wrong link - try this.
https://youtu.be/2GEgcYiYH_s
New webinar. Make of it what you will (this is SYM after all). Some points:
- Laurier says that the Middle East will never move to compostables/cardboard to solve the plastic problem. I am sure that is right - they are oil based.
- Waiting for Indian regulatory approval on products for the JV. He seems optimistic. I have done work in India and know the bureaucracy can be very difficult but maybe this is something they will move on (but most regulation is state by state)
- Eranova, the algae product. He seems (surprisingly) rather bullish on that. I had seen that in the prelims and was rather surprised. I think Eranova are looking to open up a new plant in Indonesia.
https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/LON:SYM/Symphony-Environmental-Technologies-PLC
The forward guidance on this recent RNS is very positive...alas, they've over promised and undelivered A LOT here previously .. but I'm cautiously - very even - optimistic this time round... and a couple of clearly meaningful to the bottom line RNS's over the coming few months will convince me this company is finally in train to living up to its huge potential.. so I have cash set aside and will be keeping a close eye on this towards looking to average down significantly - for me - here later in summer, hopefully.. (tempted to do a small top up in 6's p in June as well too.. but trying to make myself hold off on that until next RNS, at least)
Might have to wait for the next set of results to see if the claims come to fruition. Not the worst set of results but could have done with something more substantial to properly bolster the sp and stop this never ending decline ! Not hopeful enough to average down yet.
Well put Ctw.. I have renewed faith here now and did a small top up this morning off the back of that.. obviously thy've over promised/ under delivered for a very long time now.. and so best wait and see as we go thru this year, perhaps.. but I'm hopeful going forward from here..semi excited even ..
Ok, more or less as predicted for 2022. Outlook for 2023 seems close to being on track albeit that the £14m run rate may not quite be achieved in H1. Despite the continuing element of jam tomorrow, I am reasonably comfortable with the outlook. Costs down, sufficient resources to maintain operations for at least the next 12 months, and at least break even expected for H1 2023; and profitability soon thereafter. Notable that Middle East volumes for Q1 2023 match those for the whole of 2022. Lots of references to near term news. Let’s see.
Hopefully it will someone wanting to buy them out and put me out of my misery for being invested with them for so long.
Might they slip something out at the end of today? They are running out of time. Even if they announce some d2p contracts shortly no product will be shipped by 30June (the date by which they are forecast to get to a £14m annual run rate). So why are they not updating the market that their forecast no longer stands? Is it that they have got there with existing d2p customers and d2w? Or is that they just don’t want to get the bad news out? The Nomad should be doing something if they are already massively adrift of forecasts.
Im just wondering when results will arrive . probably 4.25 on friday
I have been a lth of this company and all that has happened is the share price has declined they never get publicity other firms get they just coast along drawing their salarys and pensions and as long as they can do this they seem not to be bothered about its performance the management seem to have as much go in them as a limp lettuce this company is going no were fast and i have said it before i will be out if there is any share price rise a complete waste of money the sad thing is it could have been a good company
Indorama is also backing Polymateria - it is putting in some of the £20m.
https://www.polymateria.com/pfp-invests-2-2-2/
Well Polymateria, a SYM rival, are getting some publicity. For those who cannot get behind the paywall the article:
- says that plastic cups were made for Twickenham rugby last year using Polymateria additive and advertised as “This cup self destructs”. That is something of a change as previous sporting events, insofar as they have tried to deal with single use plastic, have gone the compostable route
- says Polymateria are getting £20m more funding - not clear if from investors and/or grants
- still (wrongly) conflates the issue with recycling but notes Polymateria has a different approach - “The idea is that if a plastic item is not disposed of properly, a sequence of chemical reactions will help break the material’s bonds”. Of course this is what d2w does as well
- Polymateria seems to have an issue with the additive being evenly distributed through the plastic structure. SYM does not seem to have this problem
- points to L’Oreal about to set up a recycling facility using enzymes to break down plastic bottles. I think this is in conjunction with Carbios
- concludes with a Polymateria researcher saying that until the world can capture and recycle all plastic material then Polymateria’s product will be needed. This is right up to a point. All plastic will never be fully captured so additives like that of SYM and Polymateria should always be needed as a backstop.
It is a pity that SYM cannot get this sort of publicity - particularly as they are much further along than Polymateria and seem to have a proven product.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/funding-pours-in-for-plastic-cups-that-self-destruct-vrf7sshjw
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/funding-pours-in-for-plastic-cups-that-self-destruct-vrf7sshjw
There is starting to be a bit more comment on the ability to recycle single use plastic. The lack of being able to recycle single use plastic has always been a significant factor in the eco mob trying to demonise plastic and hence impact SYM’s proposition. There is quite a bit going on in various directions eg Mura Technology is opening a recycling plant this year on Teesside, a small plant opened last year in Scotland in conjunction with one of the major supermarkets (Asda I think) and the Norwegians are also looking to open up a Teesside recycling plant. These rely on pyrolysis techniques. Carbios in France is already working towards a commercial recycling plant using enzymes (having done successful test runs).
If people begin to understand that plastic can be broken down in recycling plants they may better grasp what SYM’s d2w product does when plastic is littered.
https://bioplasticsnews.com/2023/05/01/michael-stephen-big-names-and-fungi-that-eat-plastic/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/may/10/microbes-digest-plastics-low-temperatures-recycling
Sea Pearl is the one small ray of hope. They must have a good insight into SYM’s potential and believe in it. However, it has to be said they have called it wrong so far in terms of the price they paid putting money in and accepting warrants that have expired worthless.
I am not panicking yet, given the recent further support from Sea Pearl. The delay is frustrating but i still have confidence this will come good and that patience will be rewarded. Just my opinion of course, and each to their own.
From the trading update 23 December 2022:
“commercialisation of several near-term active [d2p] pipeline opportunities (excluding India) is expected in the very near term” Nothing announced.
“The near-term commercialisation of our projects and resultant sales are significant, with profitability anticipated within Q1-23 we are increasingly confident in delivering positive updates in this regard during 2023.” So were they profitable in Q1? We are in May.
I feel someone has added some D2W to this company, shares, and the results will degrade to nothing.
I rather fear they are significantly adrift of forecasts and are hoping for “something to turn up”.