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I had one who did a lot of that 'I'm just asking the question' nonsense and he built a bit of a following, but when pushed he did eventually admit he believed it was all a plot to bring about communism. If you demand they actually tell you what they think is happening rather than the much more acceptable 'questioning the narrative', you normally get a torrent of such ridiculous bull**** that most people reading have a lightbulb moment.
ProfessorSPD: I havnt seen anything about a child mask policy, I even did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything, where are you getting this from?
Have you considered the constant moving of the goalposts could be based on newly acquired knowledge? Scientific consensus will change based on information. People may have made mistakes, now with new info those mistakes are being corrected.
I'm not getting into the vaccine debate, but they've been tested, you know they've been tested, how can you hang around here and not understand the fundamentals of clinical trials? What have you been doing?
It's always the same sound bites with the antivax, anti government, great reset conspiracy theorists, "join the dots" "I do my research" "its all just polictical now hun" and "something doesn't add up" are my faves. They never say what "its all just political" actually means because they're praying on the stupid and the stupid hear the word political and think it must be something nefarious and above their heads.
I see it on Facebook all the time, it's usually heavy weed smokers or divorced middle age women, used to be an anti government lefties, now they're anti government libertarians becasue they've just found out what inheritance tax is.
The fundamental argumentative error in debating the effectiveness of mask wearing is that most people argue the ‘concept’ and not the ‘concept including its variables’ therefore isolating the concept without taking into account the various variables having an effect on the concept. It’s a common everyday mistake.
The concept of wearing a mask based on first impressions would be that it must work. You apply this concept to a hospital setting compared to a public setting where people take their masks on and off, touches this and that and use those same hands to put the mask on, wearing ineffective masks etc etc. These are two very different settings and therefore perfectly plausible that the ‘concept’ works in a hospital setting, but fails outside of that due to numerous factors.
I live in London and when on the underground, even when you wear your mask covering your nose, you’ll notice how full of black dust your nose is. Then you know that particles from breathing can escape sideways or upwards when wearing a mask. These are factors to consider.
I am by no means arguing the (in)effectiveness of masks. My post aims to bring across the point that people need to be cautious to not argue a concept without considering the concept including its variables.
Unfortunately there seems to be a societal shift brought about by media in all forms to argue concepts in isolation which is not helpful to anyone.
Professor, I fear you may drown before you admit it's raining.
Cheers starn, I feel a bit daft for not thinking that through at the time. I do put a fabric one over it but will order some without the valves.
Better then LBC and James O’Brien :-)
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Random_Act67
Posts: 103
Price: 173.00
No Opinion
RE: A truth telling American President, how refreshing!Today 09:34
TalkRADIO is absolute waffle
Hold4results, re valved masks: I believe the exhaust valves on ffp2 masks have no filtration of outgoing air so offer no protection to others if you happen to be infected and exhaling virus. So if you have a valved ffp2 better to cover it with a fabric mask.
Barry,
The constant moving of the goalpost.
Protection of the vulnerable, totally agree. But to start pushing out untested vaccines and no guarantees it’s stops transmission on people that have a high survival rate is just wrong imo!
Now the push on masks on children is just conditioning, totally wrong.
This is becoming more political then health!
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BarryBrownPees
Posts: 231
Price: 171.00
Hold
RE: A truth telling American President, how refreshing!Today 09:11
ProfessorSPD: "People need to join the dots"
What do you mean by that?
"FFP masks can also come with or without valves. The exhalation valve on the mask allows for air and moisture to exit the mask. This makes them more comfortable to wear for extended periods of time. However, a valve does make the mask feel more bulky when on. Also in a clinical setting, when the mask is worn to protect from airborne viruses, the valve is not desirable as it allows for unfiltered air to exit the mask from the wearer. In these situations, an unvalved mask protects both wearer and those around the wearer. If valved masks are the only type available, a surgical mask worn over it may increase the protection to those around the wearer."
:( I've got the wrong kind of mask. Whoops.
Whether masks work or not they are not killing anybody.Scientific advice is changing all the time and I think covid has shown that chemical science is very opinionated ,interpretal and can be politically driven to appease an agenda . Engineering and physics ( fundamental ) don't suffer the same degree of contentions .
The washing of hands and clean surfaces is not as important now as it was at the start .Here in Holland , Supermarkets do not insist on hand cleaning on entrance .The trolly is wiped down before use but people are constantly picking up stock and putting it back on the shelf .In the local shops there are no hand cleaning gels on entrance anymore since first lock down . Holland has a quarter of the uk population but a tenth of the daily deathtoll although only half daily cases to Uk which is high .This is because there is hardly any vaccine rollout and the high infection areas are around the multi ethnic areas of Amsterdam ,Rotterdam and Eindhoven .( the 3 major cities of the Netherlands) plus the youths are not giving a flying over here hence curfew from 9 pm .
There has however ,been no relaxation on the masks .
I'm not sure if the double masking is about adding a barrier, or just wearing a more socially acceptable fabric covering over your actually effective mask. I got some FFP2 masks with valves that let you breathe out and stop the mask getting clammy, steaming up etc, but they look a bit out of the ordinary which makes people uncomfortable.
Hurtle, I am deeply involved in medical research and let me correct your claptrap. There is plenty of peer-reviewed evidence masks help cut transmission. They can cause problems when used incorrectly, in that the virus transmits far more effectively in large viral loads, and if you have the virus and wear the same mask for a long period of time the viral load on the mask increases over time, or if you have the virus and continously fiddle with it with your hands. But that is simply incorrect use (and not the argument you used), same as using most things incorrectly will introduce needless danger. But despite that, plenty of evidence is out there advocating their use. If you want real world evidence...take a look at the previous 12 months data from the states. Which states have the highest deaths and total cases? Answer, those that have been lax in their control measures. Not sure why you have to see evidence for next few months when evidence is already there last few months.
TalkRADIO is absolute waffle
In medical circles that 'debate' is over - it's now moved on to what type of masks are needed to stop aerosol transmission. Biden for example is double masking it now.
100% agree Doc, the science that demonstrates the benefits of wearing masks has long been settled.
WelshFalcon: I hear you, but I don't expect to hear much of that so openly on here, and from more than one of them.
Hurtle, I'm afraid that I couldn't disagree more. I work in a small medical establishment with about 20 staff. We have strict measures in place which mostly rely on protection permanently with type 2R masks. One staff member caught Covid from outside the team and was working in close proximity to others before she was diagnosed. No one else caught Covid. I remain convinced of the efficacy of masks.
ProfessorSPD: "People need to join the dots"
What do you mean by that?
I have identified the transmission vector.
TalkRADIO shortly, topic on masks
"They ruin your health/immune system and your mental health and ability to reason, and encourage blind hatred of non-cult followers.
Wearing a mask is damaging"
Hurtle: u ok hun?
Don't panic @Barry.
Actually I take some (perverse) comfort from all this. With enough covidiots about, SNG001 will be needed for quite a while yet!
Not happy about the innocent bystanders to these fools, though. But we can help there too.
There's a business forum I'm a member of which was quite annoyed at me for 'scaremongering' when this first started.
One of them posted one of those motivational videos of nurses dancing in the first lockdown as evidence that things weren't really that bad. People will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to preserve their worldview, because realising/admitting your fundamental understanding of the world is wrong is extremely difficult to do. In the future, I imagine most people won't admit they ever held covid denialist views. The evidence will probably be online forever, but it does look like no-one cares, our celebrated idiots will just wash their hands (for once) and move on.
That other forum banned discussion of covid because of the conspiracy theorists. It's interesting that some of them who made the most bat**** insane arguments (such as this idea that far-right governments are imposing communism via lockdown/masks) have settled back down to arguing about money.
I think you are been kind, actually, Gk.
FYI. FCO travel advice to Denmark.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/denmark#:~:text=The%20FCDO%20advises%20against%20all,Faroe%20Islands%20and%20Greenland.