Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Further expert opinion by the industry expert
"Below is what looks like a link for Denso/Qualcomm/Seeing Machines. The BMW iDrive 8 has ADAS from Aptiv (Mobileye EyeQ5) matched with infotainment that looks like third-generation Qualcomm ****pit applications processor possibly using Garmin, Harman and/or Visteon as tier 1s. Seems like Toyota could be going down a similar route architecturally.
I can only join the dots and present information, everyone will have to make their own mind up about what it means to them."
Colin Barnden has Toyota as QC and Seeing Machines
Source Linkedin
"Yesterday's announcement of a partnership between Toyota, ZF and Mobileye for a future #ADAS platform could be seen as a huge endorsement of Mobileye and a snub to Nvidia. We already know of a partnership between Denso and Qualcomm for #digital****pit (https://lnkd.in/dcGQ9AN), possibly setting up a play of Toyota/Denso/Qualcomm/Seeing Machines for 4G ****pit applications processor with #DMS. However, I have never found a link between Denso and Seeing Machines. Will have to watch for further developments."
TLS - great summary and trying to place the right pieces in the right places. on occasion the pieces fit first time, and then in come cases, its is a case of trial and error with numerous pieces to ensure the piece fits.
I seem to remember that we were working with Qualcomm for many years before anything was announced
I just wish we would start releasing some news to put us all out of our misery. I don’t recall an RNS for Mobileye like we have with Qualcomm and omnivision? It’s just a shame that if we are working with Mobileye why can’t we release a similar RNS for them? The same could be said for CAE and Renesas- You would have thought these companies would like to be linked with the market leaders in DMS - perhaps when it’s out there that we are behind Ford, BMW and Mercedes others may allow us to announce news due to FOMO :) especially if Qualcomm start announcing new wins inc with SEE DMS
Glandore
Considering Cipia only do 30 fps, it will not be significant until it manages to up its game so I think we can disregard it for now. I'm happy with that!
Redindi, I didn’t say “significant at 30 FPS” I said “may be significant at some stage”. I’m happy with the choice of words....
Glandore
At 30 fps, I think significant is the wrong choice of words.
Fair point Hymes, Mbly missed the DMS bit and probably paniced.
Thank you for posting the link isb1974 - I've been out so didn't see the request.
I don't have the technical knowledge to discuss the pro/cons of Cipia's offering.
But a collaboration (if that is what it is) between Cipia and Mobileye in the DMS space could be significant at some stage.
Lewbo, I think it’s probably correct that MBLY chose Cipia. The big picture is MBLY didn’t see DMS coming as per Colin’s piece in EETimes.
I’ve read somewhere that when SEE won the Caterpillar contract with $20M up front (and we see in profit that year), the competitors (they lost of course) included MBLY. Of course a lot has happened since... and our time will come.
Glandor, I think the keyword for me in that piece is that it was a "showcase" not a saleable product. Mobileye COULD host a DMS, but I think it would not perform well.
Thanks ISB for clarifying Glandores post and giving some context.
So Cipia is hardware agnostic , interesting...
Also I assume its the OEM who chooses which DMS provider rather than Mbly telling the OEM they have to take Cipia.
Bit of a stretch by Cipia to say they've been 'chosen' by Mbly.
Lewbo18 - you asked Glandore for a link - think this might be it - https://www.eetimes.com/cost-looms-large-in-dms-race/#
Thanks
Whatif - Jigsaws are so much easier when you can see the full picture. But we like a challenge
Best to concentrate on the pieces we can identify.
Veoneer gives us this https://vp283.alertir.com/sites/default/files/report/vne_q320_ec_slides_no_notes_web.pdf
Ford F150 (delay of 6 weeks)
•AVV ~690K
•RCS, DMS
AVV - Average Vehicle Volume are primarily based on the IHS vehicle volume planning assumptions over vehicle life-cycle,
RCS -Restraint Control System
So Veoneer didn't do the full ADAS stack, just the DMS and (Airbags/Seatbelts?)
This can be done separately from the Blue Cruise, DMS is just one part of Blue Cruise and the interfacing is probably minimal here.
Also, Veoneer haven't announced any other Ford DMS yet. Their next DMS is here
https://www.veoneer.com/sites/default/files/VNE%20Q1.2021_Presentation_FINAL2.pdf
Grand Cherokee
•AVV ~630K (Note it was unnamed but just ~590K in the previous quarter!)
•NiVi4, RCS, DMS, Pos. system
NiVi4 = Gen4 Thermal Sensing Night Vision
Pos. system = Positioning System
Whatif, I don't think you are confused at all. Mbly and SEE work together as well.
I am confused. Is the eyeQ4 not used in Fords ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2020/07/20/ford-goes-mobileye-inside-for-driver-assist-systems/?sh=295b740238ee
Among those customers is Ford which has been using Mobileye products for many years. Most new Ford vehicles now come with its CoPilot 360 ADAS package which includes the Mobileye vision system in addition to sensors and software from other vendors. Going forward, Ford plans to use at least Mobileye’s EyeQ3 and EyeQ4 system-on-a-chip (SoC) and related software to power features like Lane-Keeping, auto high beam headlamps, Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking and Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop-and-Go and Lane-Centering.
The EyeQ4 is the latest generation of Mobileye SoCs and is currently also used in vehicles from VW Group, BMW, Nissan, Nio and others. Nissan is using EyeQ4 to power its hands-free ProPilot 2.0 that launched in Japan late last year and will be included in the just announced Ariya EV when it comes to the US next year.
Ford will be using EyeQ4 as part of the hands-free Active Drive Assist system that is launching next year on the F-150 and Mustang Mach-E and the chips will be built into those vehicles from launch this fall and through the lifecycle of these products. Ford will also continue using Mobileye across the rest of its lineup for level 1 and 2 ADAS systems.
My understanding is the GM Supercruise system combines Mobileye for exterior with SM for DMS
Glandore whats the link for that. It sounds interesting.
Unless Toyota is now selling cars only to China, I doubt Mobileye will convince Toyota to use Cipia, the functionality and availability required by TRI-AD goes some way beyond what Cipia at present offer.
Cipia have said they are partnered with Mobileye for DMS.
" Cipia hopes to differentiate through its relationship with Mobileye. Krzypow said his company is “the first party to integrate” its DMS software on Mobileye’s EyeQ4 ADAS SoC. Mobileye “chose us as their DMS supplier because they realized that they want to offer this end to end offer and to the market,” said Krzypow. "
As Colin has said before, Mobileye didn't see DMS coming. So they do a great job with external cameras and yes they can merge that with radar to produce an excellent ADAS platform to monitor the outside of the car. But they don't have a decent DMS system (they do have a spare ARM core - but it is not real time or accelerated so it can do software only DMS, but poorly).
That leaves the road clear for either a standalone DMS - Xylinx based or one of the new Rear View mirrors. Or one embedded in the Infotainment unit, we shall see.
Analysis required.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mobileye-zf-team-advanced-safety-systems-toyota-2021-05-18/?rpc=401&