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Battery efficiency is around 98% in LiFePO.
".....and of course it would be a bit daft for us to change to wind farms only to import huge numbers of things from China produced using electricity produced from coal !! "
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We do a lot of 'crazy' things just because it is cheap or convenient. The environmental cost of the products we use needs to be incorporated into the prices we pay. It is the only way we will realise that cheap isn't necessarily best. Perhaps local but 'slightly' more expensive would be better.
Whatever Shell does or however many wind farms we have ...we need more than anything to get China to get out of using coal.....it is still 56% of their energy source for electricity ...
and of course it would be a bit daft for us to change to wind farms only to import huge numbers of things from China produced using electricity produced from coal !!
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3123464/chinas-coal-share-energy-consumption-falls-2020-overall-coal
"The planet itself does not need saving, rather its inhabitants."
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Exactly right. We cannot kill the planet, we can only make it more difficult for ourselves to live the lives we want to lead.
Also the consumption of resources used in the shift to low carbon is 'probably' underestimated. An investment opportunity...assuming one can choose the right commodity or industry to bet upon.
dflynch: Presumably the emphasis will be on electrolysis using solar/wind energy - where higher efficiency would reduce the plant required but where the energy source itself is free?
There's no doubt, however, that your essential point regarding the continued ongoing need for fossil energy is correct.
Few, if any, politicians or activists promoting 'save the planet' policies seem to address the core issue that expansion of the human population, with its attendant demands on energy, minerals, agriculture etc. not to mention the generation of waste (including CO2) are at the root of the existential problems that will face future generations. The planet itself does not need saving, rather its inhabitants.
50/33 payback from electrolysis doesn't appear too bad!! Obviously if the efficiency can be improved that would be great, but it is probably workable.....as long as you can get the power used in electrolysis from low carbon sources (wind or solar). What is the efficiency of battery power?
"The current methods of producing hydrogen are predominantly steam methane reforming (SMR) and water electrolysis. Both pathways have fundamental disadvantages, either in the level of emissions produced, the cost of production or the amount of energy needed being more than the output of the hydrogen generated.
The SMR pathway emits 9kg of CO2 for every 1kg of hydrogen produced
Electrolysis uses 50kWh of energy per 1kg of hydrogen (giving only 33kWh of energy)"
It would seem there is still a long way to go, and time necessary to achieve it, in order to replace the black with green.
Just saying!
I'm ready to convert my raft to H2...
I also want to buy a fuel cell electric vehicle, with this caption in the rear window:
"NO batteries included"
SHELL should increase the number of forecourts with Hydrogen pump electrolysers for fuel cell vehicles. That would send a huge zero-emission investment signal to the home market. Big H, small c.
Join the future
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/561614
Way to go!
Zero-emission technology
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/sembcorp-marine-penguin-international-partner-shell-in-trial-of-hydrogen-fuel