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Bosses of this company deserve sacking !
Just seen a section of wall left lying on the drive of a recent build house. Bosses cashing in on **** build quality & having the face to bank millions in bonuses (ripping off the U.K public)
Company & directors should face legal action.
Since you are not a shareholder in this company and so have little clue about what they are doing, why do you post on this board? Just fancied a Rant?
Ps
Strong Sell? Obviously you have not even looked up the fundamentals.
I think post 2008 it is very important for the property establishment to ensure that no different version of what could have been done exists. Therefore if it went to a court case and the 'expert' witnesses are called then they can 'produce' no evidence and it is all a massive stitch up and lawyers paid by tax payer , i presume!
Pre 2008 i was investing all i had in green energy and the diverse economy. This i saw as even more important post 2008 because it was the diverse economy that rescued the country from the bank meltdown -FACT. However then the beneficiaries of the bailout ie mainly the big landlords were required to pay nothing back to tax payer. They shouldn't have been fully rescued and should have lost 50% of their wealth and assets. But somehow they were fully rescued and kept their assets. Then unbelievably they now failed to invest SUBSTANTIALLY in the diverse economy that rescued them or green energy or general health and education and fitness (all things that provide for the strength of the diverse economy).
Then builder and builder supply (like Tp etc) wrote themselves the bonus packs! One chap tried to say he wasn't so bad cos he'd give a bit t charity! More poor logig poured over the austerity suffering population. But the main indicator to me that it is bent is that the big landlords and crown estate are keeping so quiet about it and putting as much time as possible between themselves and the unholy crime!
Nige W
They're building crap houses & the sooner they're found out the better !
The government & courts should intervene to stop them ripping off customers & making such vast profits from a **** product.
And before you ask - My house was built in 1812 (Thank god it's not a Persimmon)
What do you know about psn? All you are doing is expressing your own opinions, obviously I disagree with them, and don't want this to degenerate into tis tisn't, so I suggest you give us some facts.
I think post 2008 it is very important for the property establishment to ensure that no different version of what could have been done exists. Therefore if it went to a court case and the 'expert' witnesses are called then they can 'produce' no evidence and it is all a massive stitch up and lawyers paid by tax payer , i presume!
Pre 2008 i was investing all i had in green energy and the diverse economy. This i saw as even more important post 2008 because it was the diverse economy that rescued the country from the bank meltdown -FACT (which needs to be strong public knowledge so lawyers don't waste time on this!). However then the beneficiaries of the bailout ie mainly the big landlords were required to pay nothing back to tax payer. They shouldn't have been fully rescued and should have lost 50% of their wealth and assets. But somehow they were fully rescued and kept their assets. Then unbelievably they now failed to invest SUBSTANTIALLY in the diverse economy that rescued them or green energy or general health and education and fitness (all things that provide for the strength of the diverse economy).
Then builder and builder supply (like Tp etc) wrote themselves the bonus packs! One chap tried to say he wasn't so bad cos he'd give a bit t charity!(let the chap who steals 10 bottles spirits say that!) More poor logic poured over the austerity suffering population. But the main indicator to me that it is bent is that the big landlords and crown estate are keeping so quiet about it and putting as much time as possible between themselves and the unholy crime!
So AND this is the conclusion. I was trying to do the right thing BUT instead by the crooked system I was bankrupted because my taxes increased to bail out property AND this act of bailing out property took all the money out of the system to them. So when my sons ask me about this country I will say that Daddy was bankrupted bailing out tony blairs property portfolio and the crown estate. When he asks why we didn't do more in my generation for green energy I will say because the landlords stole the money and didn't contribute. I know it's hard for you to understand son but their assets and keeping them and being stupid pompus people was more important for them and so more important for their political reps which they chose (watch a few bad episodes of Poldark and you will get the idea- not much changes)
So don't talk to me about HMQ or big landlords because Daddy thinks (knows) they are all bent and can't ever get together and contribute and do the right thing at the right time. So that's why things are hard for you, boy
EXSTATEX, I suggest you try to be a little bit more succinct, I find your ramblings a tad hard to follow.
TMT i posted lots of facts which you never answered but only answer as negative slurs or biased misquotes. In case you didn't know that is not called normal discussion or debate and to accuse of lying is disrespectful and UNFACTUAL
Facts as we know them.
Landlords and crown estate were 90% rescued by austerity
Not required to pay this money back
Failed to invest their crooked windfall in the diverse economy which saved them and which they reward with abuse
I don't have time to repeat all facts again except to say that bonuses were criminal, apartment design worse than soviet (re space, ceilings, balcony), and nothing really is being built for famiies with proper facilities but profit is being maximised and redistributed to undeserving, tax payer is again being put on hook to support it via incentives, a fair proportion of profits going to build substantial facilities is being essentially stolen, and investors are being allowed buy too many units to be lazy landlords crippling more chances for more people (by taking a too large cut of their income of course)
So to be plain owls , as someone who has paid massive tax in past and never asked anything from state ,
I conclude that the behaviuor of the property establishment, crown estate and beneficiaries was neither good, honest or useful for the future. fro leadership to be respected it has to be clever and honest and the best example to the country. But what actually happened in my opinion was a massive con. Landlords should have suffered losses post 2008. We , the good investors should be able to invest in future industries and technology and be protected and encouraged and rewarded by state. Actually i thought this was the case. We coud build a new and stronger economy and find the truly clever people to lead us. We should not have to rescue landlords. It has all being like a nightmare and extremely disillusioning. We shouldn't imo let them away with taking all the money out of the till
BIG FACT for TMT- yesterday sold wedding ring to feed children
Well, well. Since he posted right after OWLS did, I checked to see if he was a little more succinct, and I see I'm the target. So I'll just try again.
First, exstatex, I'm very sorry you've had to sell your wedding ring. I highly recommend you stop nursing grievances (the world has always been a place where injustice happens) and spend less time on forums and try to find a way to upgrade your circumstances. There are things you can do to better your situation. If you can't see what they might be, please try the Citizens Advice Bureau and other local community organisations. Spend less time thinking about being a victim and more time trying to change it and overcome your circumstances. Many people have done so, including in situations worse than yours.
On to other matters.
"Facts as we know them.
Landlords and crown estate were 90% rescued by austerity"
I asked for this before. You state this as fact. Previously, you stated it as a "bailout." Banks were bailed out, agreed. When were landlords bailed out? Where does the 90% come from? If you want us to accept it as "fact" you need to prove it, not merely assert it. There is no reason that anyone should just take your word or mine for anything. Back up your "facts" or expect us to not believe you. You've not bothered to do so.
PSN isn't even really a landlord. They own some land but they are using it to build houses. FWIW.
"Failed to invest their crooked windfall in the diverse economy which saved them and which they reward with abuse"
PSN is returning hundreds of millions to their shareholders which is being invested in the diverse economy in various ways. That's a fact. Oh, sure, they paid stupid bonuses, too. Do you know how much Persimmon paid in employer national insurance on those bonuses? Do you know how much the recipients paid in national insurance and income tax on those bonuses? Perhaps more than you think WAS returned. Unless you've done the research to find out you have absolutely no credibility. I could tell you but you wouldn't believe me.
If you want PSN to "pay back" you can't just wave your hands and say "90%". 90% of what? Of the value back then or the value now? Where does 90% come from? Does the company get any credit in your world for having paid Corporation Tax on its profits? For having paid National Insurance on everything it pays its employees? For the tax those employees have paid? For the jobs it has created for its suppliers? Or is it supposed to be 90% on top of everything they've already paid, and if so, why is that fair? Just because you are mad at them?
Just for once, try to be specific and actually provide some evidence to back your claims and we could actually have a conversation....
Again no answers or no facts from you TMT. There you go again trying your best to characterise and personalise .
Lets understand once and for all that the total rescuing of the banking system completely rescued property prices. The pre-bailout value for building sites was anywhere from zero to 10% and that was a cash price since no bank borrowing was available. yes this actually happened!
Now a thing called global warming was going on in the background since well before 2000- FACT. Pre 2008 establishment didn't do much but post 2008 the gov has really screwed the tax payer just to prop up the banking system and the big landlords (property owners and SELLERS) too. So much austerity tax has just gone on this. Why they couldn't have supported property prices at a lower level and have the landlords/sellers/builders suffer losses nobody explains. This would have been much fairer to the tax payer, and house buyers, and certainly no massive cheating bonuses would have been paid to the directors of building co.s/building supply co.s. It not only would have been fairer , it would have meant Green energy build/plan/solving/infrastructure could have gone ahead already decades late- Fact. It is completely unfair that non house owners had to pay higher tax to rescue house owners lifestyle. It's got nothing to do with individual co extremely bad and arrogant behaviour per se. It has to do with morally how can politicians let this unfairness happen and how could they let it happen at such a crucial time.
Before the tax payer bailout the builders would have been near enough insolvent. So how can anybody be ignorant/ brass necked enough to pay themselves a bonus on being completely rescued. It defies any moral examination.
TMT you like to wriggle and blur arguments and tbf i'm still waiting for a fact from you.
Again i have to repeat the main issue..namely that austerity crippled the vital investment funds that were available for green energy before. A far better approach imo would have been to partially rescue landlords/sellers and build the green energy infrastructure we need. Double electricity capacity if necessary in total. Make energy cheap and readily available and then you can build the future and also cope with any emergencies-floods,disease,food shortages etc. All sorts of new ideas and possibilities would emerge. But instead the politicians rescued their friends and are on a path to make cheap energy scarce and reduce possibilities and essentially reVictorianise society. Religions/Royals/ certain lawyers love this and you wouldn't want to be stuck on a desert island with these useless easily confused problem solvers. I already see it near me that a culture of who is allowed speak and who isn't reasserts itself. I don't expect they have the honesty to admit that their new power was attained by tricking/conning/robbing the tax payer who would have invested the tax money in an entirely different more sensible way. History can't hide!
"There you go again trying your best to characterise and personalise ." No, I am trying my best to get you to match your claims with facts.
At least now, instead of just shooting out "90%" as you've been doing for months or longer, you've explained where you think that number comes from. At least, I think it's this: "The pre-bailout value for building sites was anywhere from zero to 10% and that was a cash price since no bank borrowing was available. "
Is that why you say "90%"? I'm trying to understand your 90%. There can be no useful interaction without that understanding.
If you say 90% for another reason, please explain that. Please give us one post that doesn't get into global warming or bonuses or religions or crown estates and just explains why you think Persimmon (no one else, just PSN, that's what this board is about) got a 90% bailout. Is it the statement I quoted above, or something else? If I understand that, then we can go on to other things.
To be honest as far as I am aware PSN were not bailed out by anyone during the banking crisis. They made a ruthless decision to drastically cut back on their overheads by paying off a very large amount of staff, they realigned their costs and specifications to maximise the available margins and renegotiated a lot of their banking covenants to weather the storm. Persimmon stated in an AGM (I think 2008) that there was a financial Tsunami coming and that they would not be starting any new developments as a result. This showed foresight rather than mismanagement. Persimmons tight financial management and strong financial position pre-crash allowed them to weather the storm and if anything bailed them out it was Help to Buy scheme that bolstered and kickstarted the entire market for all. This may not be the case for all builders but for PSN I believe it to be fairly accurate.
The well documented bonuses, were voted for by shareholders as part of the capital return plan which was the 10 yr dividend return scheme. Maybe it wasn't abundantly obvious that there was a sizeable LTIP scheme attached but it was there in the paperwork. And if this scheme had been dissipated down to ALL staff, then no-one would be up in arms about it in fact i surmise that it would be hailed a as a fantastic scheme to incentivise and retain all staff. Obviously this wasn't the case so while being a moot point, is still one to ponder/consider.
As our housebuilding/construction industry in the UK contributes substantially both directly and indirectly to employment then obviously the government is going to do what it can to bolster it, after all no government will remain in power while a country is in decline and employment is on the rise constantly but that isn't the fault of a housebuilder, that is a political failing if anything.
If the banking bailout did rescue property prices then it also rescued many other things as well. Property cannot be held to blame for the bailout that they benefited from as a secondary effect? that's much like saying its ford cars issue that my neighbour was killed by a drunk driver because they made the car that hit him?
fundamentally PSN are a business who, like any other business, are out to make a profit. They are governed by financial regulations as well as building regulations that they need to adhere to. for this forum they seem to be doing what they need to do and as a result their current share price is on the rise as a result.
@Dunale "To be honest as far as I am aware PSN were not bailed out by anyone during the banking crisis."
You're right and I've said that to exstatex in the past, and asked where this "bail out" came from. He's now indicated that he's talking about an indirect bailout, that the bank bailout was a bailout of the builders because it kept their property prices up. I'm trying to find out if that is really what he means, and where his 90% bailout idea comes from.
Not much hope of any kind of meeting of the minds but am willing to try....
There he goes again. I wanted to find out about his 90%. I asked. I didn't slam him, I asked what he meant. I asked him to give us just one post that isn't the same old rant about royals and religions and freemasons and climate change and bonuses would actually just explain what he meant about this 90% bailout. Anyone can see his response. Apparently because I actually just asked him to explain I'm now a "climate-change denier."
The site says, "Please read our rules before posting." Those rules include:
4 While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate; rudeness, swearing, insulting posts, personal attacks, or posts which are invasive of another's privacy.
5.h (You will not) post non-constructive, meaningless, one word (or short) non-sense posts.
5.k (You will not) post or otherwise publish any content unrelated to the board or the board's topic.
So, exstatex engages in personal attacks, posts non-constructive posts, and rants against the crown estate and George Osborne and David Cameron and masons, and goes on and on about green energy and about how he isn't going to pay any more tax (hope he never buys anything that incurs VAT!). I'm not sure how ranting about green energy or calling me a climate change denier or bashing on about the royals and religion helps anyone make a reasoned decision about whether or not to invest in Persimmon Homes PLC, so it appears to me he's in substantive violation of the rules of posting here.
That's just my opinion. I'm no moderator but if I were the hammer would have fallen hard by now. It doesn't matter that much because we have the filter so I'll moderate him for my purposes. I'll not bother to read or respond again.