Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Hxulcolrdoh
Yes it’s been quite tough - my wife wasn’t best pleased when I suggested buying more on the way up but it’d have been perhaps more logical than averaging on the way down!
At least I’ve one position in the money now but the rest are going to be out a long time in the future
Nevertheless it’ll be refreshing to read a set of actual figures!
Let’s hope you get your £3 sooner rather than later and achieve a nice payday :-)
Good luck Barrieprov.
Even if I was not invested in PFG I'd have my fingers crossed for those who have been on the receiving end of what I suspect is needless stress in recent times. There may well be shareholders who have been burnt, there may well be employees who have seen high hopes for SAYE schemes dashed (if PFG offer them). For whatever reason and regardless of what ultimately comes out in the wash management has clearly woefully mismanaged shareholder and market communication.
Hi Hxulcolrdoh
Of course forgive me I didn’t want to imply I was following any recommendation based on your posts as I always check the “no opinion” box and wouldn’t expect to see a “buy” recommendation in these or any other market.
Like you I spend a lot of time “thinking out loud” using the BB as a source of informed opinion. Don’t worry but I’m delighted to see you’re averaged down below the current price which I was never going to be able to do
Think I’m at 275 so still well “out of the money” but given it cratered to 130 by holding firm my 4,000 shares are c £3K better off than at the nadir adjusted for dividends
GLA and here’s to £3 PFG at which point I’ll raise a glass
Hi Barrieprov.
When I post on a board I'm neither trying to persuade or dissuade. Rather I'm trying clarify my own thinking.
My own position on PFG is that in recent years I have watched them move from one crisis to another. This year after they have finally returned to a small profit (and would have produced good results bar the obligatory "exceptionals" ) I took an initial interest @ 240p. I was a bit early.
It remains the case that the accounts are littered with 'provisions' but I am speculating that these will ultimately be identified as 'prudent but unnecessary precautions'. Further in the absence of guidance, shareholder engagement or information over and above the perfunctory minimum my working hypothesis is that senior management working to their own timetable are using their black belts in number fudgery and information hiding to game the system. I'm speculating that 'when the moment is ripe' magically things will come up 'smelling of roses'
Since my initial investment I have averaged down to arrive at a weighted average of 180p. From here I'm planning on sitting on my hands until 300p or the 2022 results are published.
My analysis could be entirely wrong. DYOR. GLA.
Still massively discounted but beginning to look like a sane multiple of earnings
Should’ve heeded advice and bought on way up
Hi Theborn
Still not a champagne popping moment but at 194 we’re approaching a 3m high in recovery story and my modest 4,000 holding is c £2,500 less out of the money and I was so close to capitulating as SP approached 130 but I wanted to thank you and hxulcolrdoh and others for holding a mirror up to my insecurity without outright recommendation
I wonder where we’d stabilise butvahead of results maybe £2.00 - £2.20 might be fair? GLA DYOR etc etc
Yes it’s still a long way around the u bend but maybe coming
be coming back ;-)
Turds float sometimes!
Prefer if it was floating at £4+....aka a fair valuation!
Theborn
Turd share up 15 - largest daily rise I ever saw
Think CPI print in US has boosted sentiment
Got for it MLM!
Prove Theborn wrong!
Polish this turd!
Considering in past couple of days PFG has annouced the PRA retail deposit group use approval; news today banking surcharge expected to still fall to 3% from 8%; and significant bull and risk on rally in the general market..... This turd still sits even further behind where it was when market was at this level weeks ago. We were well over £2 then.
They need to announce CMD ASAP and give market some real guidance.
Turd share.
I was thinking given their cash holding and the undervalue of shares, they could do what other firms have done and start some share buy backs which would help boost share price (from market confidence assessment) and also improve the dilution percentage of us long suggesting shareholders. They could easily buy back £50m of shares now they have access to the retail deposits in addition to existing cash.
No brainer. They won't do it though.
US figures a beat
PFG just popped up 8
Not sure I understand this. Obviously they recognise there is demand for the shares at this price, but they have stated they have too much cash and basically have an inefficient balance sheet. However, they must have a growth plan up their sleeve, so I am willing to take the positive view and not be too upset about the dilution
I tend to agree with you Theborn – I ‘sense’ the company is grossly undervalued and that this is primarily attributable to a communications failure as opposed to a fundamental problem.
The communications strategy (such as it is) seems to be to vaguely mumble some non specific verbiage whilst waving their arms about. Maybe there is an inner circle that is ‘in the loop’ but the market generally seems to be scratching it’s head.
I’m taking comfort from the PRA approval that there is not a fundamental problem (otherwise the PRA will have to drop the ‘P’) and leaning to the view that the downside is quite limited and there is a potentially significant upside – if only the management could be bothered to champion the case. Lets see what the CMD brings.
To confirm, I've always said this share was undervalued and has become even more significantly undervalued during 2022.
My justified disappointment is the lack of transparency and clarity from management (and PFG's investor relations) on any market update or result update - both around lack of clarity on 'management expectations' and regular reshuffling of result reporting proforma making it hard to compare apples with apples year on year. Both of these issues create doubt and uncertainty for stakeholders (when perhaps there is non need for doubt) and both could be easily corrected if management decided to do so.
So whilst I applaud some progress made since 2018 I do attribute a good portion of the share's current underperformance to management. The stock price doesn't lie and management to date are seen as value destructive, wiping off 70%+ of value as of earlier this month.
I'll be as happy as all shareholders if over the next 2-3 years this does start to realise its true £6+ potential. But management still have a lot to answer for on lack of transparency.
Let's see when CMD is announced and what they have to say re expectations then. Although I fear will once again be PFG jargon bingo...
I agree bigpunt … it takes a long time to change direction and business model but I think they’ve achieved that now , personally i’am quite happy to wait a be rewarded
Agree this is great news. I'm really looking forward to learning about the products they will look to introduce as a result of this. What an exciting time to be invested, and still a great price to be adding shares. I now do not mind central costs being so high - perhaps they resourced in anticipation of this news.
Although I know some others have different views, I think this reflects well on management. I just hope they can communicate this openly and positively
Theborn
The price is drifting since I put the commentators curse on it this morning but I’m wondering if the reason for depressed SP is the sheer lack of visibility of the business
It’s a small cap in a sector that’s not loved by the public or regulators and the cost of living crisis is penetrating quite high up the socioeconomic strata such that we, the share owning fraternity that aren’t selling to pay our energy bills are now very much in the minority? Not an analytic or particularly informed viewpoint but my take on it
My understanding is the PRA will have given significant consideration to this request, as a) it opens up retail deposits to group risks and b) given the previous pfg reg issues the PRA wouldn't be risking savers funds if considered more of a risk than any other banking group.
Given process has taken almost a year my reading is this is a sort of thumbs up from PRA on pfg overall functioning.
Share should be £4+ in real world. Long long long way to go
Up 7.90 on my screen
Presumably in addition to being a financing advantage the PRA approval would have required a 'drains up' inspection on the overall health of the business?
Very good news from a cost of funding perspective. They still should have commented on this in the recent update that they were still awaiting response, rather than just not mentioning it whatsoever.
Expect CMD date to be announced soon now this is in place. And hopefully a 3x increase in share price.
https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/provident-financial-PFG/share-news/Provident-Financial-PLC-Funding-Update/89469616
Positive news?
"Malcolm Le May, Chief Executive Officer, commented:
"I am pleased to announce that the Group's application to the PRA for a large exposure waiver has been approved. This will allow us to leverage our existing access to retail deposit funding, through Vanquis Bank, to fund all our lending products going forwards, including vehicle finance. This is an important part of our stated strategy of becoming a fully-fledged banking group and highlights the inherent competitive advantage we have of holding a banking licence. As we said with our H1'22 results, we will transition towards having a funding model which is predominantly retail deposit funded whilst maintaining the appropriate diversity of liquidity sources.""