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I don't currently hold here , but it is worth clarifying a bit of patent law.
Simply put, patent disputes are resolved in Court unless the two sides agree a settlement before or during the case. For the accused company to be prevented from using the technology in dispute the accuser would be required to seek an injunction and the courts would have to grant it . So far as I am aware an injunction has not yet been sought, nor I believe has the jurisdiction which a case is to be heard ,agreed . So I suspect that the article referenced in this thread is erroneous ,notably , it makes no mention of an injunction, its having been confirmed nor its terms, ie duration , breadth, etc . Were such an injunction to be granted I have no doubt OCDO would instantly appeal and the injunction would , in all probability be suspended pending the outcome of the appeal.
That is not to say that the matter is unimportant to OCDO, it will cost them time and money , whether or not they win.
I remain on the sidelines.
Do you know when this share price is likely to stop going down value?
There's plenty of upside yet imo. Court case risk factored in now. New contract would give significant upside....
One is wondering just how much further this share price will drop ?
"They haven't completed any new deals since this legal case, if they are free to do so it would be great to see something go through that includes the so called infringed technology, to show they are not worried in any way and they have full confidence in the technology being their own to continue to trade upon."
Yes do8erman. There would be a big rally in the share price should the above happen.
Indeed value, one always values any of your input as it is usually discernible and apparent.
Indeed it is apparent the market is currently pricing in the potential risks that we are all currently aware.
Should there be further risk one is confident the market will also price into mcap.
Let’s all hope there is a sensible conclusion to this legal challenge and we can all rest.
Neil, it was my lame attempt at humour to lighten the mood, apologies..
One = Juan.
The vast majority of patent dispute court cases are resolved out of court. If autostore are successful (which personally I very much doubt) then there would most likely be a financial compensation settlement Ocado reach with autostore. The market cap of Ocado has reduced by several billion as a result of this court case. So several billion GBP of risk is already factored in currently
A very difficult situation do8erman, we all have to do masses of our own research and waiting is often the order of the day.
No one is an expert we can only read and be educated and informed.
Risk can only be limited where possible and personally I try to maintain a mixed bag of investments in the hope they balance out!!!
One is puzzled by the Spanish connection, one prefers Southern Italy!
Thanks Neil, its the wait that's killing me though, I haven't the money to risk that some on here have and the loss in 'profit' from £29.00 is a massive hit for me to take, hence my consideration of investing further at these prices, but I still have my concerns, so will as you suggest wait it out for the time being and see where the SP goes over the next couple of weeks before deciding either way. Out of interest whose this Spanish chap you keep referencing?
One was hoping all this would simply go away and that it was all a bad dream!
One can only sympathise with the companies involved and it’s shareholders, no one wants to see others losing money!
However one must appreciate that as others have stated the law is the law and we must allow of course the law in the US and UK to process the facts and draw conclusions, we must all await the outcome however long that takes in both countries.
Let’s just wait and see what happens.
Thanks, it all makes a lot more sense now. Seems the SP has dropped back on sentiment/market conditions generally, but perhaps mostly on fear with people like me armed with just half the facts who have gone on to sell and move on. However, the costs involved IF this goes against them in X years could be huge if those deals mentioned in the media reports don't happen, agreed? They haven't completed any new deals since this legal case, if they are free to do so it would be great to see something go through that includes the so called infringed technology, to show they are not worried in any way and they have full confidence in the technology being their own to continue to trade upon.
Your article is stating Ocado have been ordered to stop selling their tech. It's clickbait journalism designed to draw the reader in.
Reality is within the article that they have been ordered by another company but of course as chilting has outlined this holds absolutely no weight. The courts are the only ones who can make any judgement.
I know for two reasons:
1) Atostore might want Ocado to stop anything. Without court decision "want" is all they can do. And this is not going to happen soon.
2) I know a lot of IT guys from Ocado Tech and they work as usual.
I’m sure if this news article was printed with incorrect comments it would have been removed by now wouldn’t it?
https://www.chargedretail.co.uk/2020/10/02/ocado-is-being-sued-for-patent-infringement-over-its-key-automated-picking-systems/
I know only what I read and no one on here knows more than that.
We must allow the legal proceedings to conclude!
Their are two countries legal structures at play here and they both will work at their own pace, it could take many many years to conclude.
Whether the newspaper is correct or otherwise is a matter for the aforementioned media source.
I find it difficult however for any company to enter into an agreement with products involved that have a legal ownership challenge ?
Exactly. The court case has been judged to be completely without merit by Ocado. Should autostore win is an improbable "should" in my view.
Currently and for the next 2 years or so until the court case occurs Ocado are completely free to sell their technology.
Its clearly erroneous to suggest that any company can be stopped trading their products when another company makes a patent infringement claim.
If that was the case any competitor could simply make a claim to stifle the opposition.
It is the eventual outcome of the court case that decides the issue in x number of years.
valueplay, fair points i've re-read and I suppose this is the main factor in your comments regards, business as usual and nothing has changed essentially..
"Should AutoStore win the case "...
valueplay, thanks for comments I do value your opinion more than most on here, but i'm still confused, if you are stating that -
"Ocado though have not been ordered to stop selling any of their technology."
Versus the links Neil has highlighted where the media reports say the opposite, where are you getting the information from that they can carry on without issue and its business as normal, with no limitations to any future deals that include the disputed technology?
Or is it that I'm jumping the gun and it is business as usual until the court case, and then if proven guilty from that point (whenever that may be) its then and only then that OCDO can no longer trade on the back of the technology?
If you read that article it's lain for all to see that Ocado have not been ordered to stop selling any of their technology.
These are not my statements they are in the media.
https://www.chargedretail.co.uk/2020/10/02/ocado-is-being-sued-for-patent-infringement-over-its-key-automated-picking-systems/
Neil,
Do you accept your statements below are false or can you substantiate them?
"Let’s not forget Ocado have been ordered to stop selling the disputed technologies until legal proceedings have taken their course and the outcomes will determine the next steps"
"We know Ocado have been ordered to stop selling the technology."
I am in the same position as all on here, and only know what’s in the media, I’m quoting what’s in the media only of course.
We don’t know anything other than what’s in the media, sorry I can’t help more obviously it’s a worrying time. Let’s just keep watching and waiting to see what the courts in US/UK do.
https://www.chargedretail.co.uk/2020/10/02/ocado-is-being-sued-for-patent-infringement-over-its-key-automated-picking-systems/
Neil, thanks. That's all I need to see for now and won't be investing further just now, I'm not sure how I missed that, its all starting to sound a tad risky. The scary part being that its not just the millions in damages mentioned - IF the case against them is proved. But if so, then does anyone know what costs would be involved in scrapping the 54 automated systems, surely this would severely damage OCDO financially and the SP?
''Should AutoStore win the case Ocado would have to scrap deals to supply 54 automated systems to seven of the world’s largest supermarkets on which it has largely staked its future".
We’re all in the same situation here do8erman, we only know what’s in the media.
It’s clearly a very complex case and we can only wait to see the outcomes in the US/UK courts.
No one on here knows anymore than what’s in the media.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thenationaldigest.com/ocado-faces-legal-challenge-over-its-robot-operated-warehouse-technology/amp/
Clearly legal cases though can go on for many many years that we do know!
It is very worrying.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thenationaldigest.com/ocado-faces-legal-challenge-over-its-robot-operated-warehouse-technology/amp/