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@Kooba
Not sure what your last sentence means ?
All good stuff on likely product , that agree seems most likely we know of ..but still be good to have a confirm. Also haven’t seen anything talking application of that devise. The low power consumption a major plus for mobile devices.
One dat we will know more!
Don't think STM needs to 'spin' our dots and don't think BT needs to rely on backside illuminating image sensors for that matter either ! - high expectations built on too many assumptions can be dangerous IMO for anyone making serious investment decisions.
The other dots I joined of course are that we have supplied ST with 2 types of dots, one tuned for NIR and the other for SWIR.
But... let me now play devils advocate. Let's say I'm wrong about the VD55G1. You might ask why ST wouldn't specifically refer to that as having quantum film in the sensor stack when they do explicitly refer to it being in the SWIR sensor...
So, can anyone find any information that makes them believe the VD55G1 doesn't have a QD layer? And I'll see if I have anything else to backup my "assumption".
So, the VD55G1 doesn’t explicitly say it has a quantum film – it is my current assumption and I have to add “I might be wrong”. If so I will eat humble pie for the next month. I am still looking into it!
But the next one is more obvious…
Following this link tells us the other sensor ST just calls the “SWIR Camera” which is a “SWIR Sensor based on Quantum Film”…
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/campaigns/sensors-converge-2023-demos.html
I think this video about it has already been posted:
https://st-videos.s3.amazonaws.com/SWIR-sensor-based-on-quantum-film.mp4
There is also an interesting PDF about it which may have already been posted here. It says it is ST Confidential, but hey it’s on the Internet!... You will see some more specs about the sensor on those slides.
Search “ST SWIR technology for Agriculture EPIC on line meeting on Agri-Photonics”. Dated 14 March 2022 by Eric Mazaleyrat.
Happy to hear alternate opinions!
That's awesome XenOn, thanks for sharing.
The product looks made for mobile devices, smaller and better than competitive products. If launched now and currently being evaluated by the device manufacturers, I gues that's why they predict 2026 for mass adoption. We could see it used in many other products before then too.
Very exciting.
As I say, that wasn't really ready to print. Some more interesting stuff on VD55G1, you may have already seen these:
Pages 15-23
https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/image-sensors-to-enable-lowcost-and-lowpower-computer-vision-applications-a-presentation-from-stmicroelectronics/258442132
I think some or all of these videos have been shared before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkcqmV_e7n8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6OcmmOlNfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_dxb78K3A
Ok, this isn’t quite polished enough to print, but here goes. To start with the history we all know…
We started working alongside ST in 2018 to create a new IR sensor for Apple. Apple were looking into multiple technology options and in 2019 decided not to go further with the STM / Nanoco approach. That was their strategic decision and we understand it’s not because there was a problem with what we were making. At that point we all got a lot grumpier and a lot poorer (M.E not so much..)
We carried on our collaboration with ST and signed a Quantum Dot Material Supply Agreement ('QDMSA') with them. Everyone knew it was ST as we said so in our RNS’s in May, July and December 2020 as well as the Edison Flash Notes in July and October 2020. This was a “framework agreement that covers both development work and commercial supply of nano-materials for use in various infra-red sensing applications over an initial five-year period. The QDMSA also commits ST to certain minimum volumes in the event that future commercial production orders are required”. From 2021 we never mentioned ST by name and they became the “important European electronics customer”.
Now, go back to the Steckel paper in May-21 called "66-1: High Resolution Quantum Dot Global Shutter Imagers" (link below but you will need an academic account to read it)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352802543
The paper says “QD photodetectors are a promising platform technology that ST Microelectronics has developed, scaled-up, and is ready to commercialize. They leverage colloidal QD materials to realize CMOS compatible thin-film QD absorbing layers in our devices. The QD films are highly engineered to create ultra-dense packing with a high degree of surface passivation.”
You will see in the paper that ST were using the VD56G3 and VD55G0 backside illuminated image sensors (BSI) at 2.6um pixel pitch and it appears they were applying a layer of quantum dots (ST spin our dots into that layer which they call "Quantum Film"). You will note that the QD layer is 2.2um pixel pitch later to be taken to 1.62um.
Now, if you look at the databrief for the VD55G1 you will note the pixel pitch is 2.16um. This is just one of the tells, there are others.
https://www.st.com/en/imaging-and-photonics-solutions/vd55g1.html
There is more - but my lunch break is over! So, will have to come back later…
Bachatanut, Nanoco have told us these sensors take many (5+) years to go from development to production.
On 5 July 2021 we announced that we signed a “Development Agreement (the 'Agreement') for a project (the 'Project') with a very significant Asian chemical company. If the new nano-material is successfully developed, it will be suitable for use in electronic devices across a number of sensing applications and end markets”. We've completed many development work packages so it appears to be moving ahead nicely.
So you will have to hold your breath a little longer on this one.
Thanks, Xenon. In other words yet more "jam tomorrow" from BT & Co.
Bachatanut, no he was just talking about ST. The other customer is still working with Nanoco, it says in the presentation we are still working on developing a non-Pb sensor with them.
So BT said "our customer" as in the singular. Does that mean the once much vaunted large chemical company from the Far East has departed the Nanoco scene and so BT et alia have done a 1984 on them?
LordVM, Kooba is right to point out that ST are not explicitly saying that our dots are in any of their products. However, by "joining the dots", going back over the past 6 years I believe they are in the VD55G1. That a NIR product btw.
There is another sensor to come from ST, their SWIR Global Shutter sensor. That one intrigues me more but I won't go into detail on that as I am missing some info. I'll try very quickly to put my thoughts down now but it won't be polished.
XenOn - thanks for this. You're certain VD55G1 is the one then? Is that because of teh spec - it's SWIR and only QDs can do this? (I'm not technical at all, apologies if this is wrong).
"our customer said we should expect [more] orders...."
You'll have to listen to the whole thing to understand that he is talking about ST. The presentation was in January - i.e. 2 month after the first ST order was placed so he is definitely referring to additional future orders.
Anyway I guess people can make their own minds up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oun9bCyzCFA
Certainly ' more ' not mentioned.
@Xenon
I thought he said 'a customer' as opposed to 'our customer'.
Even so regards time, the future is as long as a piece of string and he skips over the answer quickly by finishing ' I can't answer that question because we don't know' - doesn't sound as confident as yourself by a country mile !
TS, search "investor meet nanoco 2024" on youtube. 56mins 40 seconds in.
BT says "our customer (ST) has told us we should expect (more) orders but they have not told us when"
I think we know stm have never mentioned Nanoco or any orders publicly as far as i am aware , Nanoco has said that stm have led them to expect further orders so we have the company’s interpretation of STM s Intent. Mostly we rely on Nanoco saying that stm did not develop this product ..whatever it is to sell small amounts of it..which makes sense but then we have no means of really being able to ascertain where the stm product fits in the global market for SWIR sensors and whether the stm product is gaining any traction. Odd position to be in.
I queried the forecasts given by the company and its marketing research and was told
“When we give guidance for the following year we include assumptions about revenue wins (this is normal practice for most companies). The alternative is to explicitly state that the revenue guidance is based only on contracted orders.”
So it is saying current guidance includes anticipated contract wins..which is what i have been referring to ..they are not anticipating any material orders that move the revenue forecast at all , one given pre first order which was for £8.5m revenue this financial year. I was somewhat disappointed in this, as was expecting there to be some build up.
Of course, you could be more certain than BT - now that would be quite something !
@Xenon
As you know words are important, thinking what someone said is not quite the same.
Yet you gave the impression that you're 99.99% certain !
Troublesome, I’d have to go back and listen to the half year results presentation. I thought BT said it in the Q&A section.
LordVM, you would not want to know how much research I’ve been doing into this over the past few weeks. I’ve not posted anything, which will annoy some, as I’ve not had any concrete info. And I didn’t want to spam the board with everything I found as a lot of it has already been published by Kooba and others.
Basically, I’ve been down a lot of rabbit holes!
All I am certain of is that our dots are in the VD55G1, due for full production release about now. The SWIR sensor our dots are in doesn’t seem to have a name yet.