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Hi Sotolo et al here. Bit of fun so dont take it too seriously and send hate messages .
What was drummed in to me at business school was not diversity ,not carbon emmissionss , climate change , the teachings of Marx or Engels nor the dangers associated with excessive drinking . smoking, or fatty foods. physocological inference and misguidance and propoganda . NO It was "nothing happens until somebody sells something" Hogan may be an excellent mining engineer , he may be an excellent financial businessman . but selling Sukari to retail or wholesale investors just aint in him . no matter whether he thinks it is or not.
Oh well .back in the dole queue.
Regards and good health and best wishes to all
Bob
I sent in 2 comments during the event. Which I was pleasantly surprised Alex had the tenacity to put forward to Mr Horgan, uncomfortable as I bet it was for the CEO :
#1 Paying laborers & legal fees while exiting BF is one thing but the 2022 annual report show a $2,000,000 license renewal fee that was paid in 2022. That's the bigger amount that doesn't make sense.
#2 Appreciate you asking the difficult question Alex, Props to you. However, MH left out the fact that Centamin received a letter from BF in December 2021 saying the license was non-renewable. So to believe Centamin would send 2million to a country who didn't ask for the renewal fee (as per BF letter) and under a coup is questionable
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Final Thoughts
We should have had Alex on the Centamin board these last several years - I bet things would have turned out better for shareholders
Annoying to hear Horgan obfuscate on the rhetorical question of why share price is low. The answer is blindingly obvious that profits are so reduced. But he tries to blame poor UK mid cap market (which hasn’t fallen anything like Centamin) or the Israel Gaza situation caring and informed as a. ‘Significant shareholder myself’. I had a bit of time for him but not when he doesn’t just come straight, second rate I would say
Tibbs I think you can email questions during the presentation?
Panama president asks voters to decide on contentious First Quantum mining contract
PANAMA CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - President Laurentino Cortizo said on Sunday Panama would hold a referendum to decide whether to scrap a contract with Canadian miner First Quantum's local unit following days of protests by thousands of people opposed to the open pit copper mine project.
The vote will take place Dec. 17 and its result would be binding, Cortizo said in a video message.
"I've respectfully listened to those who oppose the contract with Minera Panama," Cortizo said, using the name of First Quantum's local unit.
Neither First Quantum nor Minera Panama immediately responded to requests for comment.
Panama's government and the miner had agreed on a contract which would guarantee the Central American nation an annual income of $375 million while allowing First Quantum's local unit to operate the Cobre Panama project, an open-pit copper mine, for at least 20 years.
Protesters have criticized both the deal and the mine's environmental costs, even after Cortizo on Friday issued a decree rejecting all new mining projects.
In a statement late Sunday, Cortizo's office noted that the contract was first established in 1991.
After Cortizo's announcement, Panama's main workers' union said its members will keep protesting in the streets until the contract is annulled.
"There's no maneuver in this fight that will deceive the people," a union representative said.
The Cobre Panama mine's activity accounts for nearly 5% of the country's economy, and last year represented about half of First Quantum's EBITDA.
------------------------------------>>>>
Talk about extreme measures. FQ shares down 30% so far today...
What a pity we have to just listen and cant ask telephone questions!
There are many factors to consider here for the company, it' shareholders and indeed the Egyptian Government including-
1. The grid can't cope at peek time now and any addition and significant demand for industrial use depending on the time may well exacerbate the power down times!
2.The CAPEX justification for linking to the Egyptian main grid is dependent upon the cost advantages including cost break even time and future cost efficiencies all of which are dependent on the reliability of electricity which at present is erratic and likely to get worse?
3. Possibly more importunately Centamin has always been keen to be seen as a "Good Guy" in its host country by regarding its moral and environmental responsibilities as priorities by considering the wellbeing of its workforce and the wider Egyptian community.
What then if electricity were to be denied to those people of the wider community in preference to supplying Centamin then that would surely be going against the ethos and core principle that Centamin has been so keen to promote over the years?
If you read my post in context and took it in before flying off the handle you would have realised that my comments were in response to Tibbs post & not yours.
I neither know nor care what you are doing but I do like bananas if you would truly like to throw a couple my way :)
Yes it is. When the power's there they can use it. When not they can continue trucking and burning diesel in spite of the enormous expense and inefficiency this entails.
Major European markets traded mixed premarket on Monday as investors closely followed developments in the Middle East.
On the data front, market participants are expecting new readings this week on consumer confidence in the EU, inflation readings in different countries in the region, and the overall figure for the EU.
The DAX and the CAC 40 were flat at 8:03 am CET, while the FTSE 100 rose 0.28%. The pan-European Euro Stoxx 50 inched up 0.19% a minute later.
The euro held steady against the dollar at 8:04 am CET, selling for $1.05660. In comparison, the pound grew by only 0.06% to go for $1.21296 at the same time.
Baha Breaking News (BBN) / JG
Happy Monday y’al
October 29, 2023
Daily nationwide power outages across Egypt have begun to last longer, with the government cutting the electrical current off from homes across the country for an hour and a half or more each day.
The power outages began in July, with Prime Minister Mostafa Madbuly saying that normal coverage would resume by mid-September at the latest. But the cuts continued into the first weeks of October and lengthened over recent days.
Behind the cuts are a reduced domestic supply of natural gas
Longer power cuts began on Saturday, Cabinet Spokesperson Sameh al-Kheshen said Sunday. He pointed to an increase in consumption as well as “a decrease in the quantities of gas supplied from outside Egypt, from 800 million cubic feet of gas per day to zero.”
Though Kheshen did not mention in his Sunday statement the normal source of Egypt’s gas imports, Egypt was formerly receiving around 800 million cubic feet of gas per day from Israel
More mazut could have been used to supply the deficit in natural gas resources and avoid nationwide power cuts, said a member of the House of Representatives Energy Committee while speaking to Mada Masr on condition of anonymity in July. But, they continued, “there was not enough mazut available, which is probably due to the lack of foreign currency.”
https://www.madamasr.com/en/2023/10/29/news/u/longer-power-cuts-as-gas-imports-drop-to-zero-says-cabinet-spokesperson/
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Here's a damn good question to ask CEO Horgan - is now a wise time to switch to Egypt's electrical grid to power Sukari?
There are a lot of $ being spent and then 'capitalized' via the Capital waste clearing as non-sustaining the EMRA does have the opportunity to allow or deny a portion, thus Centamin not being able to recoup it, resulting in a payback schedule to the EMRA.
IF such a discussion is ongoing for a significant amount (i.e. if the EMRA demanded Centamin only be able to capitalize a stripping amount equal to the original LOM plan of 5.3 to 1 then Martin Horgan would surely be required to make a clear announcement to shareholders of any cost-recovery disallowance?
For obvious reasons these are typically the type of things that tend to get buried into the fine print of company annual reports such as on page 152 labelled key audit matter here: https://www.centamin.com/media/2940/centamin-ar22.pdf
Further details regarding stripping costs being allocated as capital can be located on page 182 - where it also notes that the rise in such allocations was deemed significant (which likely would raise a red flag at the EMRA) 2021 being $59M and 2022 being $141
There is mention in the report of he 15 year tax holiday coming to and end in 2025 , but also stated that PGM will submit a 15 year extension as well.
Explanation is required on how a 50/50 profit split agreement could also be expected to pay income taxes and why such a holiday and extension would be needed ?
It is clear those that invested here at 2 pounds were investing on nothing more than feeling there was going to be a future profit, in other words following the sheep sentiment, sadly as so often,they did not look very hard at the fundamentals nor consider the risk, buying such a overvalued share ,at the time.
Yes I admit buying 10000 at 180 ,and not selling after the news. But I own many many more ,maybe to many.
But thats life, you live and learn. Invest only what you can afford to lose.
Like it always says investments can go down,be warned.
This one now is bargain basement buy.
If you cannot stand it get out ,and do not invest anymore in the market ,especilly now.
As Andrew Maguire says ,"how much physical do you hold".
Naguib Sawaris claims to own 20 to 30 % in physical, like housing , a secure investment.
IMHO.
Hi Keepplugging,
It's quite true looking at the full history of Centamin there there were some outstanding results , unfortunately they were unsustainable and the esults from 2018 have been erratic, unreliable and rated from disappointing to dire up until now!
True the previous management were very successful at cutting corners, glossing over the true facts misleading the shareholders and filling their own boots just before bailing out as the cracks appeared in the gloss and the pit wall, but that said they had exclusive knowledge of the true state of Sukari which obviously retail share holders did not!
Lets face it if the previous management had done things properly then they wouldn't have needed to bail out and the Centamin share price wouldn't be languishing at around 80p with POG @ $2000!
Reading this bulletin board just once in a while is now painful.
What ever happened to the Golden flip flop party Mr Tibbles was planning, I suppose I can throw mine in the waste bin now.
For recycling of course.
Spoon who threw you a banana....you have no idea what I'm doing ...I certainly didn't buy here at 2 quid like some others did.
You clearly have no knowledge of the full history of Centamin and the outstanding accomplishments of the company’s founders and previous management turning a piece of desert into a billion dollar mining operation.
Despite your obvious lack of knowledge you continue to repeat ill-informed and erroneous opinions based on nothing but your own misery and ill will.
Why don’t you examine your own investment principles and practices and work on improving those rather than continuously searching for scapegoats to satiate your seething rage over poor investment decisions - this course of action may well lead you to profitable investments.
Hi Keeplugging
It's understandable on the information and media releases made available by the previous management and indeed the brokers analysis predicting a share price at nearer £3 why people bought in at £2, but unfortunately Andrew Padey, the BOD and indeed members of the EL Raghy family were glossing over how they were achieved by high grading and failing to have in place a fit for purpose methods or any method at all of adequately dealing with waste ore, also the open pit walls angle of inclination were too steep and there was inadequate surface water drainage at the top of the open pit, this all contributed to the inevitable and narrowly avoided near catastrophic pit wall collapse when the crack in the open pit wall became so apparent that it forced the previous management to confess their years of bad mining practice!
You may be aware that in the original Sukari agreement profit share didn't begin until all CAPEX costs in the building of Sukari had been recovered which would have been all well and good if the original open pit and the underground operations had been developed to the correct speciations for long term operations, but this wasn't the case.
So do we now have a situation where the new management through the deception and poor mining practice of their predecessors are having in many respects to redevelop Sukari from scratch which incurs a huge increase in CAPEX , this I suspect is very difficult, if at all possible to recoup from EMRA who were likely of the impression all major CAPEX had been repaid!
In view of this could the management now trying to renegotiate some extension of terms in the LOM plan
(That is he 15 year tax holiday coming to and end in 2025 but it also says that PGM will submit a 15 year extension as well. )
You may recall Hendersom's postings recently warning of some unannounced bur impending bad news, I wonder ?
The Suakari potential problems were exposed in 2015 & 2018, it is now apparent they were justified!
https://rb.gy/5qo6z
For some of us longer term investors, the previous management made Centamin a hugely profitable investment for which we remain immensely grateful.
Don’t want to rub salt into the wound but I will anyway for a giggle 🥳😃
Sorry Mr gnome, I mistakenly referred to you as Mr Bond!
That's excellent Mt Bond who knows if we are lucky our share price may tick up to at least 83p for a couple of days!
I concur, an absolute stinker of an investment and a result of the management never being completely honest with the shareholders or the market!
Hi Sotolo,
I agree with you entirely on this, the "Fishy" smell is increasingly apparent the higher the sterling POG as is my rising suspicion that the management aren't being entirely honest regarding some rumoured changes in the agreement with the Eygptian government which reduced the amount of free cash flow!