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If Horgan and his crack new team are incapable of navigating the waters of West Africa - including whatever failures Pardey left him - what makes anyone think he is capable of developing any new concessions in Egypt?
West Africa has literally dozens of successful gold miners already operating - including the ultra small like Roxgold and the ultra big - like Barrick. Those management boards utilized the same drillers and contractors to verify resources in the ground without self-destructing into oblivion - and most without the cash resources of Centamin!
I'm sorry but we are being led down the garden path in regards to West Africa and perhaps even Sukari. The timing of the 'movement' suddenly appearing in the open pit equating into a total overhaul of the life of mine? But I won't go there today.
The WA issue is coming down to this: Let's say selling Konkera really is in the best interest of shareholders (and that would have to be justified fully - not simply Horgan's say so)
we still MUST get a resource update FIRST.
Somebody in management must go public and explain why Napelapera & Wadaradoo and all the other satellite sites and extensions have not been added into the West Africa resource s as the only entity to benefit by not making these resources public would be the fortunate buyer — Endeavour perhaps?
Saying - 'Damn, we've already spent too much money in West Africa drilling holes - we better sell and cut our losses' is not only ******ed - it's an insult to investors. It's rich for us to think there is not much point in pursuing Burkina Faso and at the same time expect somebody else to come along and 'take the problem off our hands'
Centamin's real problem is ignoring shareholders interests by ignoring continuous disclosure and I personally think it could amount to a crime.
Hi Cowichan,
I understand your frustrations, but perhaps its better for Martin Horgan and his team concentrate on sorting out sort out Sukari and the other outstanding Egyptian issues and delegate other West African operations to contractors familiar with the area as Dasut has suggested in the past.
At the present my feelings are what is spent in West Africa no matter how good its potential is dead money, it hasn't produced a bean as yet ,so sell it on, get shot of it or contract it out
But whatever that decision Sukari is in a mess and to have the new CEO taking time off to try and get things up and running in West Africa makes no commercial sense at this time.
When Sukari is up and running to potential and the other legal issues are settled then look may be a better time to look elsewhere .
Tibbs - you make a valid point regarding a third party taking the lead (especially since there is country security risk to consider ) but if Horgan wasn't familiar enough with West Africa - especially considering he's spent a decade in Senegal developing the Mako mine - then why was he chosen? He certainly wasn't picked for his experience in Egypt!
And if Horgan can't manage more than one mine at a time how in the world does Endeavour manage half a dozen? Or Barrick? Or the growing list of other mid tier miners?
Our problem for realizing shareholder value for over a decade has been SINGLE asset risk. The board acknowledged and continues to acknowledge this. Why we give Mr Horgan a free pass to kick the can down the road another twelve months after studying the data for over a year already is beyond me.
Are we too tired to discuss West Africa? Do we wish it would just disappear? Have we forgotten the lengths Endeavour was willing to go to snap up Centamin's assets?
It's not easy finding a host of deposits all bunched together on this planet. Konkera/Batie West is a treasure trove despite what our current management has chosen to admit. If Endeavour gets it you can bet they will sing the area's praises so loudly and often we'll be sick of hearing that too...
Surely one of centamins biggest risk factors has been it being a single asset miner. I find it odd to suggest we sell on an asset that we've spent years proving so we can remain a single asset company. From the update the new mine will add near 50% to our production. I think we'd be mad to sell it on.
I am afraid you all miss the point.
What cey s strategy is no debt.
B/F has complicated geology. Expensive to produce ,and get rid of it.
But that is only my opinion.
The intuitional investors will voice theirs ,privately to Centamin.
If. END want it sell.
MrBond
"What cey s strategy is no debt"...I THINK THERE IS TAD MORE TO IT. THEY HAVE A STRATEGY OF DELIVERING SUSTAINABLE DIVIDENDS TO REWARD SHAREHOLDERS, WHICH MAKES THEM UNIQUE IN GOLD MINER COUNTRY. MOST GOLD MINERS SAY .."BELIEVE IN ME, WE KNOW HOW TO ALLOCATE CAPITAL ON YOUR BEHALF, AND HAVE A BUNCH OF WONDERFUL ACQUISITIONS AND MERGERS TO MAKE", AND THEN TRASH SHAREHOLDER WEATLH, AND THE INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS SEEM TO FALL FOR THIS EVERYTIME?
"B/F has complicated geology". REALLY? NO MORE THAN MOST, NOTHING HERE TO DISCUSS
Expensive to produce ,and get rid of it. BATIE APPEARS TO BE EXPENSIVE FOR REASONS DISCUSSED, YOU WANT TO FLIP 4+ M OZS, ..GOOD LUCK TO YOU. NOT IN MY WATCH, OR IF YOU DO WANT TO FLIP IT FOR A SONG, FLIP IT TO ME...SEE PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS.
Perhaps less stirring in the Martini's?
the gnome
In view of our debate on what may be ways forward in West Africa and our frustrations about the erratic share price I though this post from 2017 from Dasut warranted a reread.
As we are aware since 2017 Egypt's new mining code of 2020 has hopefully removed many of the obstacles that deterred new commercial mines development, although that acknowledged unfortunately the legal system doesn't as yet seem even slightly more speedy with regard to Centamins outstanding issues or Law 32, which remains under scrutiny by the SCC, assuming they are still around that is!
Original post Dasut-
Centamin/Pharaoh Gold/Sukari I have mentioned various names because let us not forget the parent company is Centamin and currently their only production comes from their Egyptian flagship mine.
So currently political and commercial risk are based on Egypt which has unfortunately gone through and continues to do through many "basket case" scenarios.
Investors in Centamin are risk takers so the share price will be volatile BUT at the same time it is a profitable business model, with conservative management, with no overly ambitious predictions or advertising gimmicks.
It is a company that will be ham strung by what Egyptian politics/legislation dictate, coupled with fluctuations in the gold price.
I really don't see the frustrations that many on this board are suffering changing until the West African opportunities turn into producing mines and political and commercial risks are spread.
As an investor I would hope this will happen sooner rather than later
BUT I don't think fast tracking is always the best route especially in a mining business to take, especially developing virgin sites, so as I have said previously making sure double checking detailed strategically put together mine plans are essential and are the difference between bleeding money and making good profits.
So as I have seen under other postings patience is of paramount importance so I am keeping the faith.
Possibly Dasut may want give us an update on his thoughts of 2017?
MARTIN HORGAN, CEO commented: "Building a strong active growth pipeline is central to our strategy, while maintaining our capital allocation discipline. Today's announcement of a positive preliminary economic study at Doropo and the exploration potential at the earlier stage ABC, demonstrate the quality and potential of our portfolio.
The Batie West Project has potential to deliver a profitable mine, but not one that would currently meet our strict investment criteria. We are now initiating a review of development options for this asset.
The Doropo Project is very exciting and is our priority growth target outside of Egypt, showing excellent potential to become Centamin's second mine. Our highly experienced team has proven expertise at delivering successful gold projects in West Africa and will now commence the PFS, the results of which we look forward to announcing in mid-2022."
https://www.centamin.com/assets/doropo-project/
For Those that may have missed it-
May 27th 2021 Peel Hunt Note
West Africa growth from Doropo
Centamin has released the review of its West Africa gold project portfolio, with the announcement that its Doropo project in Coted'Ivoire will be progressing to PFS stage. Management seems fairly high conviction on Doropo being in production by late 2024 at an impressive capital intensity. At 150-200k oz pa,
Doropo should also provide a substantial production uplift to CEY after Sukari operations have stabilised. Diversification and growth are now firmly part of the CEY strategy.
Doropo project could be in production by late 2024
Centamin (CEY) completed the West Africa portfolio review, from which the main conclusion is that the Doropo project is likely to be CEY’s second mine.
The Doropo PEA showed potential to build an open pit mine for US$275m in capex with the aim of producing just over 150k oz pa over a 13 year life of mine
(LOM). Doropo’s average AISC is estimated at US$904/oz with cash costs estimated just below US$800/oz. Doropo could also produce over 200k oz in the first five years of production for an early payback period. Management has stated that the PFS will be technically heavy so time to DFS could be short, while costs included (capex and opex) could well come in lower than stated today. CEY has allocated US$14m in 2021 for 70km of drilling and to move the project to PFS stage by mid-2022.
Batie West looking for strategic options
Meanwhile, the board has decided to explore third-party development optionsfor its Batie West project in Burkina Faso. The Batie West PEA showed potential for a US$265m capex mine with a LOM of just 8.5 years of 140k oz at an AISC of ~US$1000/oz. However, with a higher opex and capital intensity compared to Doropo, the CEY board has decided that this mine does not fit its investment criteria, and so will categorise the project as non-core.
Production uplift expected by 2024/2025
The ABC project in Cote d'Ivoire has also been allocated US$3m in exploration spend for 2021 to get permits by mid-2022, but was the project with the shortest update today. It sounded as if management would like Doropo in production by late 2024, in our view, with any potential construction capex for Doropo being timed to come at the tail end of the current Sukari pit stripping. Meanwhile, the reclassification of Batie West as non-core could potentially bring in funds to CEY should they sell off the project
Hi Cowichan,
I greatly appreciate and respect your input and opinion's, you are well informed and know your subject, I also appreciate your opinions and enthusiasm on what could be done and the possibilities in West Africa.
In the past I held Barrick, but can't say that I was impressed particularly with the share holder returns or the communication which was patonising ,even rude to say the least, however the CEO Bristow is an arrogant and awful character who pays lips service to environmental issues, slaughters wildlife for his own pleasure and over bloated ego, also Barrick does not treat its workers well and seems quite prepared to rub along with some pretty corrupt governments for commercial gain.
So not that Barrick would care a jot I felt it would be hypocritical to hold their shares, as to Slimy Seb's Endeavour ,I wouldn't touch that bunch of carpetbagger's with a barge pole!
So although I have my issues with the way Centmin has run they pale into insignificance when compared to my feelings on Slimy Seb and lion slaughterer Bristow!
Personally if Martin Horgan wants to sell Batie West and make either of those two two buggers squeak over the price and then uses the money wisely elsewhere in Centamin I have no objection.
I appreciate your enthusiasm over West Africa and agree you should have received answers to your justified questions on the pertinent points, but unfortunately after being invested in Centamin for over a decade and enduring so many set backs , broken promises and disappointments my enthusiasm for what might be has disappeared, but at least we seem to have a CEO who may actually get what we have now Sukari running properly!
I confess to c&p’ing the odd post into google translate which I just did with this one..
It all became quite comical when the female voice with a trans-Atlantic accent read out...
“I wouldn't touch that bunch of carpetbagger's with a barge pole!”
Nice choice of words Mrtibbles.
Cheers
What fun ,Razor's!
I really do not se why there is so much noise is being made over this subject, B/F,
At the end of the day , nothing much that is said here on this subject ,makes the slightest difference to management strategy, Everyone has their own opinions and that is all they are.
Can't disagree with your opinion on this, after the most recent drop in share price due to the WA strategy announcements is almost of no consequence when compared to the previous two drops as a result of the problems at Sukari.
This seems to show which issue is of paramount importance at the present to share holders.
MrBond46
You are so very right. There are other places to voice my concerns over West Africa and I can assure you I am making my voice heard on that stage.
On the subject of not understanding why one would talk about West Africa on this BB - that is more than a little wrong. You can speculate whether gold goes up or down on this BB. You can speculate about the open pit at Sukari. You can speculate about Capital clearing the overburden, when we might get concessions awarded around Egypt even what you ate for breakfast, lunch and dinner - but oh my gosh - stop making noise about West Africa?
Maybe it's past your nap time...
Ha Ha, Don a drop of sarcasm is like water off a ducks back, we must agree to disagree on some topics :-)
Of course mate. We are still friends (even if you are wrong about this) ;-)
And of course ,you are not wrong ? !!! ;-)
As Cowichan says West Africa is extremely important to Centamin and as I have said on a number of occasions it is a great place to develop mones given the depth of experience already available. I have no idea why the board has said Batie West/Konkera or indeed maybe Burkina Faso is non core BUT a guess as others have said it is the refractory nature of the ore and then I would suggest the confusion around the processing method which has already been very well covered by Goldgnome.
Lycopodium are in my view the most experienced company in West Africa when it comes to planning and advising on the correct process and if they have reservations then I can understand the focus on Doropo and ABC over Burkina at this time.
I would also like to know what is meant by "Third Party" is this a joint venture, is this a sell off who knows?
I was hoping that Batie/ Konkera would be a let's get mining the oxides, using a form of simple leach process and use contractors operating 100 tonne trucks or smaller and get to know the nature of the mine and grow into the mine BUT Centamin are not that sort of company and does look as though they have reverted to type namely a conservative approach.
I think as it has already been suggested we need answers to why non core and what does third party really mean.
I do however favour the idea of focusing on the less risky options of Doropo and ABC and if the third party means bringing in a partner with added value to develop the Burkina assets then again I am all for it as I would hate for them to walk into something that they are not comfortable with purely because of bravado.
Really difficult decision as pretty much a no win, sell it and see it blossom under different management (heaven forbid Endeavour) keep it and it becomes a drain on funds.
I know technology has moved on but Bogosu had similar issues at the outset and the solution was use a roaster at considerable cost so much so went bust and the finance company had to run the mine until they introduced the then new technology "bug plant". The then forerunner of Lycopodium namely Minproc also suffered from their recommendation.
I would like to know more detail about the non core statement but am as I have already said very happy that there is a plan in place to develop Doropo and add value to the company with an additional mine, hopefully with ABC close on it's heels.