The latest Investing Matters Podcast with Jean Roche, Co-Manager of Schroder UK Mid Cap Investment Trust has just been released. Listen here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
If you were looking for hand sanitiser, would you follow WHO, CDC or Dettol's advice to use an Alcohol based sanitiser or would you use Byot's non-alcohol based sanitiser?
WHO:
"Wash your hands frequently with soap and water or use an alcohol-based hand rub if your hands are not visibly dirty."
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
CDC:
"If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/prevention-treatment.html
Dettol:
"If soap and water are not available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer"
https://www.dettol.co.uk/about-us/understanding-coronavirus/
"Whilst the World Health Organisation (WHO) advises the public to use an alcohol-based hand rub, the average antibacterial hand gel found in local supermarkets, pharmacies or airports may not be effective against viruses."
https://byotrolplc.com/why-your-hand-sanitiser-may-not-protect-you-from-coronavirus/
Unique product in protecting you without the alcohol element. Good point stt1. Not just any old sanitizer.
Riptonk,
"protecting you without the alcohol element."
So you would ignore WHO/CDC advice to use a Alcohol based sanitiser? Strange.
Would you also ignore your doctor for preventing illnesses??
Common sense dictates to listen to WHO/CDC advice. I'd expect the vast majority of people to follow their advice and check that the sanitiser is alcohol based. Better safe than buying any old hand gel/sanitiser.
Stt1,
I'm not sure I understand your point now, hence I thanked you earlier. You have raised the points addressed by Byotrol and linked to earlier by oneandonly1 at 05.32.
https://byotrolplc.com/why-your-hand-sanitiser-may-not-protect-you-from-coronavirus/
"Whilst the World Health Organisation (WHO) advises the public to use an alcohol-based hand rub, the average antibacterial hand gel found in local supermarkets, pharmacies or airports may not be effective against viruses. Consumers should therefore check before purchase that any hand sanitiser has specific efficacy against enveloped viruses to make sure that they are well protected.
What to look for;
Is the product labelled as ‘cleansing hand gel’? Cosmetic hand gels which don’t make any antibacterial claims are formulated to clean and leave hands fragranced, but not kill germs
Check for specific claims of ‘antiviral’ as an antibacterial hand sanitiser will not necessarily be effective against viruses even if it kills bacteria
Select a product which openly states that it has been tested to EN 14476, the European standard test which evaluates the antiviral efficacy of biocidal products – some hand foam sanitisers state efficacy against viruses without meeting the requirements of this test
The Boots antiviral hand foam, powered by Byotrol technology, has been tested to European Standard EN 14476 against Vaccinia virus, which is considered the benchmark enveloped virus and is therefore considered effective against all enveloped viruses including strains of Coronavirus in 30 seconds."
Also:
If you have any information that questions the European Standard EN 14476 certification then that would be very interesting for you to post.
Also:
Sanitiser applied frequently would be alcohol free preferably unless you are a wrinkly old shrimp and don't care. Since this particular virus is highly contagious and surface based then the need to reapply would be a prime requirement.
Rip,
the point is simple..
If you were looking for hand sanitiser, would you follow WHO, CDC or Dettol's advice to use an Alcohol based sanitiser or would you use Byot's, a private company, NON-ALCOHOL based sanitiser?
Common sense dictates that the VAST MAJORITY of people, inc governments, would follow WHO/CDC advice.
It's up to individuals as to whether they choose to heed or ignore WHO/CDC/Dettol advice but I believe and would expect the vast majority and governments to follow and promote it.
WHO:
"Wash your hands frequently with soap and water or use an alcohol-based hand rub if your hands are not visibly dirty."
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
CDC:
"If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/prevention-treatment.html
Hopefully the shortage of hygiene products at this time is enabling management to prioritise supplies to buyers who offer long term contracts. Whilst this may or may not be a short term opportunity, it may well lead to a sea change attitude and greater appreciation of how vulnerable schools, gyms, transport systems etc are to rapid transfer of bacteria.
Thanks for the reply.
1. Private company?
2. EN 14476?
Completely flummoxed as to why you are here now.
Rip,
I can't find the European Standard number, EN 14476 on WHO/CDC website? Can you please show me where it's stated that people should only use products with the European Standard number on them? Do products outside of EU have to carry the European Standard Number?
WHO/CDC advice is to use Soap/Water or Alcohol based sanitiser.
I hope governments contain the virus quickly. I hope people use common sense and follow WHO/CDC advice and use an alcohol based sanitiser.
Byotrol is effective - fact. Preferable - opinion. I have never said it is the only product or non EU companies need to comply with standards.
If you don't think it is effective or is incorrectly certified then say so. You said I was strange in concluding it was but that was flirting with words. Go ahead and say something definite.
Rip,
I never mentioned anything about Byot's effectiveness nor the EU standard, you did.
So you agree that the EU Standard means nothing outside of EU - thank you.
Do you also agree that WHO/CDC don't mention the EU standard but they recommend that users use an alcoholic based sanitiser and Byot is not alcohol based?
Given Byot's product has been sold out at Boots for over 3 weeks, will you take the risk and wait until it's back in stock or use an equally effective antibacterial hand sanitiser, which is a different brand, a supermarket own brand??
1. It's not a private company
2. It's certified as effective.
3. You don't need to ignore WHO advice because their advice (as posted) says categorically that a generic non alcoholic sanitiser will not protect you. Byotrol is categorically not generic and WILL protect you and is certified as such.
If you don't think non alcohol based products are effective then fine. If you think Byotrol is not effective then say so please.
Rip
"It's not a private company".
Is it owned by the government then? No, it's a private company.
The fact remains, WHO/CDC clearly stated that people should use an alcoholic based sanitiser.
Common sense dictates that the VAST MAJORITY of people, inc governments, would follow WHO/CDC advice.
It's up to individuals as to whether they choose to heed or ignore WHO/CDC/Dettol advice but I believe and would expect the vast majority and governments to follow and promote it.
WHO:
"Wash your hands frequently with soap and water or use an alcohol-based hand rub if your hands are not visibly dirty."
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
CDC:
"If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/prevention-treatment.html
It's a public company.
I dont think stt1 will last very long on the markets if they don't even understand the difference between a private and a public company
WHO/CDC are public organisations operating in the Public Sector.
BYOT is operating in the Private sector.
The fact remains, WHO/CDC clearly stated that people should use an alcoholic based sanitiser.
Common sense dictates that the VAST MAJORITY of people, inc governments, would follow WHO/CDC advice, a public organisation and not advice from a private company.
Just google "public company" so that you dont let everybody know your lack of education in writing on the internet
So the NHS is not public then ??? . The very fact that Byotrol invirtu is approved and used within the NHS should give comfort to the general public who can buy it direct from Amazon ....it’s a proven product with reliable IP
Frac,
"So the NHS is not public then"
That's the point.
I do love it when posters twist what I've actually written..
Who would the vast majority of people SEEK ADVICE from?? WHO, CDC, NHS but not from a private company.
I doubt people concerned about Covid-19 know or care who supply some NHS hospitals... and they currently have contracts with around 20+ hospitals out of 1500.
Someone looking for a hand sanitiser will read the advice on the WHO, CDC website and buy an alcohol based sanitiser. Or look on the NHS website which simply state 'use hand sanitiser gel', so again any hand sanitiser.
"use hand sanitiser gel if soap and water are not available"
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/
If you intend to buy online then the vast majority will search for 'hand sanitiser', which shows lots of different products..
WHO/CDC are public organisations operating in the Public Sector. BYOT is operating in the Private sector.
The fact remains, WHO/CDC clearly stated that people should use an alcoholic based sanitiser.
Common sense dictates that the VAST MAJORITY of people, inc governments, would follow WHO/CDC advice, a public organisation and not advice from a private company.
WHO:
"Wash your hands frequently with soap and water or use an alcohol-based hand rub if your hands are not visibly dirty."
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
WHO do not authorise medicines or treatments. The Eu and the usa can. And they have both approved. You seem to have grasped the difference between public sector and public company. Bravo. As to who most people take advice from ? Ooh is it WHO or Cdc. Or do they just go to boots and ask the girl on the counter ? Not long for this game i think...
Amazon and other sites have been restocked .... looks like the public are doing the sensible easy thing !! Click Amazon and get it delivered .... don’t think they’ll be rushing to read up on WHO when they can buy off the phone in 30 seconds
Thoth2,
"WHO do not authorise medicines or treatments. The Eu and the usa can. "
Absolutely nothing to do with approval. It's SEEKING ADVICE.
WHO/CDC/NHS advice people should use soap and water.
That's independent advice from an international organisation and doesn't require approval from any government.
WHO advice:
WHO:
"Wash your hands frequently with soap and water or use an alcohol-based hand rub if your hands are not visibly dirty."
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
NHS advice:
"wash your hands with soap and water often – use hand sanitiser gel if soap and water are not available"
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/
Boots staff would provide advice based on NHS advice - Boots staff would show customers where hand sanitisers are.
BOOTS website - advice similar to NHS - use 'sanitiser gel':
"Wash your hands with soap and water often or use sanitiser gel when you’re out and about"
"Click here for the latest government information on coronavirus."
https://www.boots.com/health/cold-and-flu/coronavirus
If you have a wife or girlfriend. And she is going shopping tomorrow. Just ask if she has checked the who website for their latest advice. There is your answer. You are barking at the moon. At an sp that is rising. Because you dont understand it. And with every tick up you will bark more. The market now is not who. Its usa (approved). Its nhs (approved). Its pets and consumers in boots and amazon and target
Frac,
"Click Amazon"
Yes, try Amazon, search for 'Hand sanitiser Gel' as recommended by NHS/Boots...
Results show list of several products...
One of the ones listed at the top is ' Defendol Hospital Grade antibacterial Gel' for £16.75 delivered...
Great kills 99.99% of germs
Has BS EN 1040 and EN 1500 approved marks.
And it's kind to the skin that Rip was concerned about.
Great. Is it Bytrol's???