Adam Davidson, CEO of Trident Royalties, discusses offtake milestones and catalysts to boost FY24. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Kallu Tesco haven’t lost market share. There market share has been flat for years.
Talking shi t as usual in the hope that some sticks.
I thought you has been redeployed to another board.
That doesn't make any sense at all Kallu. BOO's sales are growing fast and consistently, when/where they can deliver their product in a sensible timeframe (ie the UK at present due to the overseas logistics issues).
I know you think we should all only invest in Primark but believe it or not people do shop elsewhere.
That article says nothing. It largely says that they have a lot to do
A few nice extracts for you
Boohoo FY20
"Technology
As we recently invested in a team focussed on expanding our in-house app development capabilities"
FY19
Most of the chat is about how they have spent on payment facilities and courier integration. PLT is spending cloud and hosting capability
FY18
Focus of key spend is all on re-platforming old websites and cloud
FY16
Replatform website and app build
Capex spend on intangible is c.£2.5m a year. In total it's £30m! That's absolutely nothing. They have never said anything about capex spend or exceptional IT build. As it's never been a material spend
Boohoo has to date spent £30m and has told investors theres no more big capex coming
Let's compare to Asos
As I say FY19 notes a decicated Ai and data science team. They have 100 more coming in Dublin
FY21 alone spent £90m! and have a similar amount set for medium term. £100m a year on tech/ data/ AI
FY18
"Significant investment in our data science and analytics platforms continued during the year. These platforms have owered the new recommendations algorithms and our conversational interface platform. The
conversational interface platform enables understanding of and response to customer voice or text commands for both product discovery and customer care queries.
Our initial exploration into the world of
‘Conversational Interfaces’ saw the launch of
Enki, a new, one-on-one way to interact with
ASOS that is designed to help customers find
products they love in a fast, intuitive and fun
way. Enki currently provides customers with
personalised recommendations; the next
phase will allow customers to use an assistive
search experience within Enki, for example to
help them find the perfect pair of jeans. The
investment in new data capabilities and
optimisation algorithms will continue in the
next year. "
£120m spent in FY18
As I said you can try this. Asos will show you and I completely different things. PLT won't it shows us the same. Asos tells you what size to get (based on you buying or if you typically oversize etc). PLT doesn't
Asos is localised for different markets. Again PLT isn't. It's just the same stock from a single stock pool
Asos spent 3 years building TGR. Boohoo have built no new systems. Look at boohoo Japan website. it's just an off teh shelf from peter jones
But please provide more evidence of how boohoo and the miserable £30m they have spent is more than asos. Even card factory came out the other week and said they will now be spending £30m annually on web offering and e-commerce build!
@T4G quote, Dan, once again you clearly know nothing about marketing.
Come on T4G soooooooo harsh, Napoleon is an expert in absolutely everything (always in hindsight looking at statement or his fav, a spreadsheet) and bit like John Lewis Never Knowingly Wrong, this time last year he was slating Asos and worshipping at the Golden Altar of BH, judging by below he's done a complete 180, i wouldn't even bother.
BTW nice insight.
@NS99 We are one of the biggest suppliers to Asos and i have worked with them since the early days when they were based in the Strand and in those days known by As Seen On Screen.
Unlike some on here, no names but you know who you are (small red head) , i have always said that Asos are the benchmark for BH in most areas, nice to see that a year later and in hindsight (always) others can see they are leading the way. I bought Asos just after 1st L/D as i could not believe the price, after initial shock of covid it was obvious there was still strong demand online, i got in at £22 and sold at £52, i bought back in when shares went down to £30 obvs still in, lol, i'm not in this or BH to DT. Bit of background on current biggest issue, Asos deliveries Ex our two factories, 1200 people across the sites and UK Design/Sales, direct to US,UK,Europe, they have been having issues tho due to consolidation at ports onto containers which is resulting in them not getting priority, delays to US are the worse it's taking up to 21 weeks normally takes 5 weeks!!!! Europe 18 weeks and UK 17 weeks normally 4 weeks. Obviously these issues are being addressed and resolved i have laid this out in other posts how BH demo and UK production is helping BH with freight delays however as i mentioned BH does need to sort out US distribution, its current biggest challenge!!, presently all PO's go to UK. So at mo both of have Freight delays, both also have cost issues but again both can to a certain extent put prices up, BH demo makes it easier to mitigate and spread across the Brands and all the nuances of sourcing for each one. So Asos is very very polished in most areas, BH purchase of Debs i have said many times was never oven ready and it is not yet anywhere near the finished article but it is getting there, still a way to go. Neither Company has a CEO or Management that have Global experience, Asos perhaps just edges it with Jose Ramos COO who was at Inditex but to me post Covid this must be priority for both for future growth, both are or have been blighted with distribution issues from DC's and Asos seems to go from all smooth to rocky once again. I'm in on both !!
"I'm not talking about the UK only. Customer data is universal" - yes I agree and Boohoo only centralised this in Sep-21 (go listen to the half year update the CEO will tell you this himself!). Before this they weren't centralising data and using the analystics. Asos has for years. Listen to the asos CME days and previous updates. They have had staff of 100's in there and boohoo don't talk of any
What you're saying is what you'd like to think and you'd point to nothing to substantiate. Look at both sets of annual reports for 2019. Asos telling you about the data scientist, AI teams, how they are building systems to predict trends. Even the other week adding 100 more data scientists in Dublin
Boohoo only references to data are supplies and a GDPR risk about customer data. As I and the CEO will tell you. Boohoo didn't even have a data lake until Sep-21. You can't do anything basic in data at scale without this to start. That's obvious to non-IT people. So how have they been doing it years? Answer is they haven't
If you and I go on PLT we will see exactly the same products listed based on new in. On Asos it will show you what you will most likely like. Try it!
"The number of analysts a business has tends to be more to do with the amount of complexity in data extraction and journey management than the quality of the insight" Tends to but not in this case. As I say asos app knows what you like based on what you search. As I say how is boohoo's more efficent they have only just centralised the data! Never mind getting insights
It spots trends based on customer search (really good insight into the Bridgerton trend the other year they present)
"Boo, along with all other online retailers need to look at returns as part of their segmentation strategy" and why? For what reason? It was a one-off and a % model of returns is baked into the model why are you changing a market leading position?
"What I do suggest is that some people get far too hung up on next day delivery" yeah just like the millions of US shoppers who now have their lives back. Again it's the CEO telling you this is the issue. Asos grew in the US over the same period. Thanks to a great proposition. Delivery is a HUGE part of proposition and you're cutting it out
And then saying to customers "you'll pay for your return"
Wow are you short? I would thunk you are!
"I believe that US growth will resume. Because the rest of the proposition is strong enough." well the rest of what you thought was pants and the 14% decline says otherwise. Especially when you have a fantastic direct comparator. Although I think we have established taht dat and insight not your strong suit
“some people get far too hung up on next day delivery. It's not that important” Oh really. Best tell Next PLC that they’re wasting effort with their “order by 11pm for next day delivery”, although suspect they’ll tell you it’s what attracts customers, hence why BOO need to get their finger out and sort out what they’re doing in the US .
I'd agree Dan, Boohoo will do worse in the long term. However, I feel that Boohoo have less severe concerns in the short term. Asos have significant long term debt that will likely be added to with squeezed margins. Both good buys though imo.
Because it’s market is global and I think you’re referring to U.K. only? That’s the mindset that has the share price at this low low low level
It’s thinking and knowing it’s market is global that Asos is in a better boat atm. Tbh I made this very clear in my statement saying Asos is next day or two day to most of the world and key markets
It’s market is global. Not just the U.K.
Also re insight Asos is far a head. They have way more data analysts and are adding all the time. Boohoo only just built a data lake in Sep-21!
Think bigger T4G. Next you’ll be wanting to change the returns policy even though boohoo don’t have returns abusers! Or sale and leaseback a warehouse!
They are very different. Both have strengths which is the others weakness
Asos is run by nerds who get all excited about how they can invest in the data, automation and efficiency of the platform to better drive customer experience. They are now building on brand awareness but selling third party brands hits margins so you have to be efficient (Nike don’t let you make 50% on their trainers)
They know what the industry is and they two days delivery to most of the world. If you need an outfit and don’t live next to the shops Asos is your port of call
Asos own brands are good but they aren’t growing like crazy which I’d like to see more of
Boohoo on the other hand is all own brand which is far better margin. They are also insanely strong brand especially PLT
The issue is for boohoo is that they have misunderstood the fast fashion market. They have been assuming that brand power alone will drive sales
Boohoo now needs international warehouses but these will be expensive and then all the capacity they have got in the Uk will be sort of spare?
Debenhams will be a bright spot but the brands on there are still weak. It’s not a John Lewis and let’s just be honest here. What is good is the Model is marketplace which means money for nothing and working cap free
Asos need a US CEO with a big ego to come in. Their market shift to main will cause a re-rate and hopefully they can start an M&A strategy
Asos can take infancy brands and grow them (by virtue of putting them on Asos) so they should then take a stake. Id love Asos to buy PLT in all honesty
Boohoo can then just rename as Debenhams and be a different business which I think would be a better valued business as it can re-set expectations and double focus on U.K.
Also a very big cheque for PLT would be nice
PLT with next day delivery globally? Asos would get their money back very quick
Sorry was meant for dan
What's your take on Boohoo Vs Asos rag? Unsure on whether to open a position in Asos too.
This is confusing the wrong parts (rag doesn’t listen to the analyst calls remember)
The analyst is referring to outbound freight (which is the big issue for boohoo atm) and rag is talking about inbound freight
Best to learn the difference as they are impacting in very different ways
@NS99 costs are predicted to drop back later in the year but as much as this is due to demand it is obvs heavily affected by fuel costs (not least if Putin takes his crew into Ukrn) As for A/F avoid avoid avoid.
All costings are worked out on sea frt, when you are in danger of missing the most pivotal time of the year (Xmas) then you have no choice but to a/f , this is not now the case and lead time delays can be added in.
@Maxage #shipping delays 18 months, mmmmm bit punchy but we will see, as i've said tho the delays are now being mitigated by bringing bookings forward.
Good post ragtrade. On the last earnings call an analyst made a point about air freight / shipping costs remaining at elevated levels even when headwinds ease. Do you see this happening as well?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60131947
As i mentioned a couple of weeks back this will continue to impact on inventories through out 2022, however all companies in the fashion sector cannot say they have not now had a ton of notice on this, so there is no excuse for not planning well ahead, sign offs are being and will continue to be brought forward to compensate for massively extended shipping lead times, this is not just a China port issue, it is affecting the whole of Asia.
BH Group is actually poised in quite a unique position, in that it has a UK Fty and a wide Demo of Brands that results in varying demands, so to a certain extent it should be able to mitigate a lot of this, for BH/PLT Brands keep on short reactive lead times (fabrics still need to be imported tho) with the UK Fty, for the rest of the Group it is much slower, it actually helps that they are not so reactionary, they do not need to be booked so last minute, in being far more strategic, as i've said above , they just sign off far earlier in order to ship goods earlier than normal.
In normal times Air Freight cut thru margin like a knife through butter, this needs to be avoided at all costs, unlike AW21 this can now be avoided, everyone has a heads up it just needs planning.