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Nezlob
To start from scratch and create the IP anyone would have to spend £20m and of course you have any patent issues on top and of course it would take some time too..
Anyone starting up would have to have Directors and follow market rules and make statements,reports and all that ...being on the market isn't cheap for a tiddler company....
One share I am in has been around for 20 years and it is only now that it is seriously achieving success...basically because it was well ahead of its time and its market has only just caught up to what is has to offer
I don't think industry has really caught onto what this technology can achieve yet ..in many ways the IP is ahead of industry which has yet to fully realise that it needs such technological products
This is common...it takes time to change industry thinking and move things from the "old" way to the "new" way
What I would like these guys to do is forget, in time, about piddly little sales deals ..and move towards the bigger more expansive contract deals...which some of the pipeline should achieve
These deals take time..time to develop a relationship etc...but..once in the door..can grow materially as time goes on..
We will see....
There are always pro and con aspects to any company and its current position....you have rightly put forward some of the other side of the coin
I stabbed at a figure of £10,000,000 in my last post as possible directors remuneration over the 10 years.
I looked at it and thought maybe that's a bit wild?
However I will just add a couple of things here 1st from last full year report.
"All Directors of the Group are employed by the Company, and the Company includes no other employees."
However in another bit it lists the average number of employees as more than the 6 directors.
Anyway payroll costs for all employees inc. directors 2020 £2,198,000 and 2019 £3,098,000 this is 2020 full year report (note 3).
Oddly though when I look at 2019 full year the figure for 2019 is only £1,259,000 for directors and key management (within note 9).
So anyway millionish at least a year going on directors and management to produce less than £100k's
Nice way to run a business? Meaning perhaps nearly half of investments gong in pockets.
So would this be where half of funding ends up?
DYOT, do your own thinking this is just my thinking!
Theres a lot about AGM that worries me.
Taking a few points from Pokerchips nice post below.
24 million invested by the company, I take it that is 24 million invested in the company in ten years. How much of that investment has gone in remuneration you'd guess maybe as much as ten. Say 4 or so directors 2 hundred k per annum apiece?
So far that has generated a couple or 3 hundred thousand £'s, that is just nothing.
Some people say they are a start up how long is that so?
The pipeline if it all was to come to fruition will generate 7.8 million, but more probably £3,000,000.
So if that happens and is all that is kept up, it will have taken 13 years best case or 18 years probable case to see a return on capital even begin. Of course the pipeline will be added to, but will this also need more funding?
Intellectual property and know how is always worth something if it can be turned into business, £23,000,000 business?
I am not at all able to understand what the company actually sells, or maybe better put how it sells. Graphene nano platelets to dissolve in things and so add benefits. So how much can you add say in simple terms to a can of paint or car wax, and then how much can you charge and so charge on to consumer. It will need significant benefits to get anything significant on top of the already priced in other ingredients. Corrosion prevention in some cases may well be that point of difference, but not in all or not enough maybe? they need some stellar product makeable.
I see some of directors worked at Croda, yet I find no deals being done with them, if I left somewhere I think I would maintain a relationship and do some reciprocal biz. Funny you cannot even find graphene on Croda wecbsite, but they do coatings? they have recruited some agents around the world, one thing I see as positive, but how/what will they market.
I also feel uneasy at how the share price increased in Dec., Jan. knowing the placing was coming up. There seems to be no proper reason for that.
I have had an bad feeling about this company since I stuck a little of my money in and then began to check things out. Of course that in itself is a bit of a daft way of doing things. You may think my feelings and reactions too are a bit daft, maybe so.
I have sold half of my shares end last week and will be selling rest probably this week, making 20% or 30% loss, no big deal on the small amount of money I invested.
But I am incredibly annoyed about, I feel I should have seen it comeing.
Ah well my own fault.
I am not in the habit of deramping, and this is not meant so, it is a summary of my misgivings.
" The Company has invested £24 million over the past decade into the development of manufacturing know-how of both GNPs, dispersion technology for nanomaterials and application data."
"The Directors anticipate opportunities for applications in areas including aerospace, marine, satellite, wind turbine, infrastructure and transportation, and expect ongoing developments to further broaden this range. "
" The Directors estimate that the current opportunity pipeline, if fully realised, has the potential to generate an annualised revenue run rate of £7.6 million. Applying a success-based probability factor to this figure, the Directors estimate approximately £3 million of annual revenues could be generated from the current opportunity pipeline. "
"These sales opportunities are largely expected to be generated in the coatings sector, with approximately 80% of engagements being with protective coatings customers."
"The Directors believe the availability of its novel products could help mitigate the annual cost of corrosion which is estimated to be $138 billion in the US alone"
" The Company is working with its customers to pursue the long-term aim of approval of its graphene thermal paste adhesives for aerospace and space use."
" The Company has significant and valuable know-how and IP for both the manufacture of GNPs, and for its dispersion and application technology. With over a decade of innovation, an enlarged distribution network, and long term customer collaborations, the Company is well positioned to deliver on its broad pipeline of opportunities for the use of GNPs in real applications."
Current MCAP £23 million
The "know-how and IP " is worth well north of £23m ...in my opinion
I am buying at these low values....each to their own...
Please don't descend into it's all the MM's fault, and where is a RNS type board. It just makes me tired.
So let me get this right. The more buys that are made the more it goes down and the fewer sells that are made the price goes down. Only one bunch trying to make more money here. Best i tell them C U Next Tuesday!
evidently they've spent it on pencils and sellotape
Love to know what the funding money recently raised has been allocated to. The company is very quite at the moment deals we’re supposed to be signed early 2021 have yet to materialise
" But they don't have the scalability and that's what counts! "
What counts is the company Intellectual Property value and very little of that is actually currently in the MCAP
IMO
All good publicity
https://blocksil.co.uk/solutions/anti-corrosion-coatings/
Disagree, scalability isn’t an issue. Good news is AGM used by blocksil on many projects this year.
https://blocksil.co.uk/news/
The Graphene Flagship organisation that is involved in this has UK partners for research etc., but not AGM, though Versarien who seem more switched on is one.
I felt I had seen mention of graphene based underwater paints when I was looking into AGM, so maybe they have another route, it might not have been directly relevant to them but just about graphene.
Anyone know better?
But they don't have the scalibility and that's what counts!
Talga’s graphene coated ships, article earlier in the year
https://graphene-flagship.eu/graphene/news/talgas-graphene-coated-ships-sail-safer-and-last-longer/
Rather then bring wax products to market, AGM have the products, knowledge, data and distribution network to make big bucks here if it does what it should.
In reply to the below article link.
The report is factual, however this doesnt take into account the future for this product and its versatility which is endless and as long as the company doesnt waste revenue on product development where there is no nailed on end contract or exit and concentrates on marketing and sales this company looks to be a sound investment. Ive seen numerous companies with brilliant ideas waste opportunities by focusing on development of further product which may be the case with this company instead of focusing on sales and revenue. If the company brings in the sales the money will follow and when in a position with cash in the bank then they can then look at product development. Focus on sale.
There are numerous relationships this company should be opening and given the product and the knowledge within the company they should be opening up communications which are FREE. I followed Burt Ruton and Beechcrafts Starship commercial business sector carbon airplanes where he initially struggled to gain backers for his idea of a fully carbon airplane.
Beechcraft have more than 30,000 airplanes currently. Paul Allen now deceased funded the largest commercial airplane ever Stratolaunch 20 years ahead of its time, however now on hold due to his death, again based on new carbon technology. Graphene is the future so if the Directors can open up talks the future is bright as far as I can see. Long term yes but thats what this company is all about. Shareholders wont make a quick buck here.
If you want a quick buck with long term potential then look at Open Orphan Plc the CEO there is a formidable businessman and has created a monster of a company. Ive seen short term and there is now long term revenues to be gained.
Good luck to all and take it easy.
Some movement in the right direction today so hopefully that guy will turn out to be wrong. I have had serious doubts about what is happening at this outfit, lets hope I am wrong too!
Be nice for me to see a quick return to at least the level I bought at, which is a bit to go yet then I can decide whether to leave it as a long term investment or sell and get back to more regular stuff for me.
Is this guy wrong? hope so. Adrian Potts recent interviews are all interesting but as a business burning cash it has to do more. The recent deals are all very small revenue generated products.
Big commercial deals need to be signed, shipping, industrial plants that spend a fortune on maintenance. Why not try Even try to get involved with highway reinstatement, surface dressing, repairing pot holes that usually fail within 6 months. Every local authority would be interested as they spent millions of their budget each year undertaking reinstatement projects.
Carriageway repairs chase massive disruption and cost to contractors who work on projects for highways. Adrian Potts needs to stop taking Graphene up and become a business man with sole focus on making big strides in the graphene market nor very small steps.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4416970-applied-graphene-materials-stock-no-sustained-value-creation-for-shareholders
Just a note following the below comments.
The revenue isnt the best, however this company is a long term investment for me as it has a unique product and has started to establish itself in the worldwide market contracting with not only repeat business but new cliental, I believe the revenue does not reflect the true potential of this business. Agreed short term and with current revenue results it seems poorly run, however this is a steady away business capable of bringing investors large returns if you can just be patient. Recent price drops because of revenue returns seem a good time to buy if you can look at the longer picture.
Thanks Phil, for the details on the detail spray. It would be nice if something was markedly different and better with the graphene perhaps longer term will tell. It will be good to hear if you get hold of some polish and how it goes too!
Sorry, thought the first post hadn't gone then mis-spelt the second!
No - they are based in the science par on the old ICI campus in Wilton!
They are based in the science park on the old ICI campus in Wilton!
I googled their premises. It's a workshop on an industrial estate. How the hell are they ever going to scale up. Stupid stupid me!
Whilst the revenue isn't great , for sure...I don't think that the revenue is where the real value is, at the moment....
This is a company where the research and the intellectual property is where the value is stored ...
What would it cost for a new start up to begin from the beginning and get the IP and knowledge that AGM currently has under the hood ?
I looked at this company a couple of years ago but thought that it wasn't the time...I have taken a first dip in 2-3 weeks ago ..I am more interested in the value of their IP and research than I am in their current retail sales ..although I do think sales will pick up within the next 6-12 months and beyond ..IMO
nezlob - I have used it on my classic bikes, on the paintwork and the metalwork. It's hard to say if it is any different in results to other products I've used, but application is easy - I just spray on, wipe off and buff with a soft cloth. My bikes have a lot of highly polished aluminium and chrome, and subjectively it feels like the metalwork is staying shiny longer, but that's hard to measure. One possible criticism of the detail spray is it is very wet, you spray on and it runs off if you're not ready with a cloth in the other hand to wipe it. That's true of most detail sprays though, and I'm probably over applying. A fine mist should do.
I'm keen to try the new polish paste to see how that works.