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"If the average debt maturity is more than 11 years and inflation is 10% then the bond holders could owe VOD money, not the other way round. I guess thats the legacy of negative interest rates."
I understand the gist of what you're saying, but I wouldn't say it in quite those terms. I'd describe it as inflation discounting the debt over the long term. I f inflation stays well over 5% for the next couple of years and Vodafone manage to push inflationary increases onto their customers, then Vodafone are winning. If inflation rapidly drops back next year and settles around 2%, then maybe not. Time will tell in respect of inflation, if it stays high then debt will be depreciated for companies with high levels, unfortunately individuals like me, who have no debt, will suffer under those circumstances.
Cheers android, but i can't see yourself on the list, you may have to put more effort in lol
Robleo 6th on the list
Mole 13th
Roofer 16th
Gary 18th
All the late and great rampers and derampers are listed LoL
I must be on that top ten list, but not sure if I'm a ramper or deramper lol
Velo
'PUMP
OR
DUMPED'
You ranked 10th on the list
Danielh 1st
Longish 2nd
Fleccy 3rd
"All i want for christmas is a "
Spaewife
Six months later BT over £2 June 2021 , but i guess Fleccy will be more qualified to find parallels for Vod case
Robleo ..." Over a pound next year" , you never know and jogged my memory i recall pension pot BT Nov 20 £1
RSI and Stochastic divergence on the daily
@ Android101 - Hee hee. You're obviously referring to:
PUMP
OR
DUMPED
- I often appear on those lists but get picked up as an innocent victim of the algos due to the length of my posts and the number of posts generated. Sometimes have a contest with others for the top spot bragging rights in a forum for a laugh. Using phrases like: fill your boots or ten bagger, shoots you up the lists instantly. Haven't looked at it in ages :)
Am I on there somewhere on the latest baddest vilains to beware of?
turnaround is doubtfull maybe selling at a loss on any upstick is way forward
PFen, if you are interested there is a site London South East shares its data with tracking all the ramps and deramps by name and by stock. Probably wont let the link be shared on here though. '******************'.
The rampers keep bagging anyone who makes a comment they disagree with. Very much a generationa thing. All those bagging the company are asking is for numbers around the belief for the future.
They offer nothing, criticise suggesting that this is not the purpose for the site and then banter with each other about fooseball and what their doing over the weekend. Get a grip. Join a teams group or Facebook but unless you can accept that everyone has and can share an opinion probably time to either do what many of the immature ones have done and blacklist owake up and back up the hype.
VODAFONE is on its way out. I hope it can have small rally so I can get out minimising my loss but too much debt,too badly managed and can't see any BS they try to spin making a difference. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it being down 3k at present but its just a basket case at present
'I haven't checked your figures, but isn't it misleading to say "high rates are getting locked in long term.", since Vodafone could go for early redemption at any time of their choosing?'
If the average debt maturity is more than 11 years and inflation is 10% then the bond holders could owe VOD money, not the other way round. I guess thats the legacy of negative interest rates.
VOD is helping the bondholders out if they retire debt early. I suppose the connundrum is more than 50% of the debt is less than 2% coupon out beyond 2030 and 2040 and its the higher coupon 2028 debt thats getting retired early this week
Denfos - Not a very charitable post regarding dan, I would have expected more in this season of good will. I also shouldn’t be so sure of your “lording up” 86p purchase. You have brought into a company with a market cap of £23.67 bn against debts of over £46 bn.
Just saying & danielh … we miss you.
So far when market was going up, vodafone was going down... now when market is down , lets see how badly vodafone falls!
Looking to break 85p and below!
I hope I am wrong !
All the best..
Chickens not eggs, but never mind lol
"Maturities for those extend beyond 2049, so high rates are getting locked in long term."
I haven't checked your figures, but isn't it misleading to say "high rates are getting locked in long term.", since Vodafone could go for early redemption at any time of their choosing?
denfos, you know what they say, don't count your eggs until they have hatched, i expect this will probably be over a £1 some time next year, but right now nobody knows if it has further to drop, if we did everyone would be buying now
He’s taken my advice and capitulated suffering tens-of-thousands of losses, while we new investors at 86p are lording it up! Justice…
This is Broadsword calling Danny boy
'The total bond value is $3bn, so they have done a bit of can kicking moving a 2028 commitment to 2050.'
With current interest rates and 10% inflation it must make sense to both parties. Would need to roll over alot of more debt at higher coupons to impact the 50% debt less than 2% coupon due after 2030/2040. We also saw the cash tender for €2Bn this week which probably counts towards MDVs €1Bn cost reduction commitments over the next period. I expect the asset sale monies from hungary and vantage will cover the tender if not more.
Debt increase even with asset sales?
Last valued the bonds program on Sept 16th. Just updated the values based on those bonds listed on Vodafone website
16/9/22 FX adjusted to EUR, total €45.95bn
14/12/22 FX adjusted to EUR, total €49.06bn
An increase of €3.11bn. In that period FX rates have gone in Euro favour, so the real increase is larger.
New bonds issued are at higher coupons. In the US shelf for example, the $1bn bond due in sept with a coupon of 2.5% has been replaced by by 3 bonds totaling $3.75bn with coupons of 4.25, 4.875 and 5.125. Maturities for those extend beyond 2049, so high rates are getting locked in long term.
The movements around the $2.3bn of may 28 bond to be bought back is not incuded yet. It has a coupon of 4.375. The total bond value is $3bn, so they have done a bit of can kicking moving a 2028 commitment to 2050.
Broadsword to Danny boy