Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Hi RayPointer
Fair comment, I was just pointing out that LD did say that on achieving a positive outcome with Covidity, Scancell would consider selling the whole Immunobody Platform. We also need to factor in the involvement of the two Nottingham Universities and the Van Geest Institute. A proportion of the sale of that platform would give those institutions a financial boost.
Chester.
Hi Chester
"Why is it so difficult to believe that Scancell, Redmile and Vulpes know that revenue will arrive from Covidity, AvidiMab and maybe sell the whole Immunobody platform."
I don't think Scancell will consider selling Immunobody at this stage since there is still unfinished business on SCIB1, SCIB2 and any other SCIBs that Lindy has plans for.
However, I do think that, if the Covidity data is good, then Lindy would consider an Immunobody deal for infectious diseases only. It is possibly what she was alluding to in the last AGM.
Why is it so difficult to believe that Scancell, Redmile and Vulpes know that revenue will arrive from Covidity, AvidiMab and maybe sell the whole Immunobody platform.
Looking at the recent GlyMabs Platform announcement purely from Redmile's point of view, considering the money they have put into Scancell they would not sanction a deviation from the path that assures them of their return on investment.
Redmile directors know why they have put so much finance into Scancell and they have a duty to ensure that Scancell is capable of bringing SCIB1 / Covidity and Moditope to positive value conclusions well before they allow the scientists to wander off on an ill thought out distraction.
Valuable positive data must be anticipated from our current trials for the GlyMabs announcement to ever be considered, why, because it would otherwise be a drain on resources needed to ensure Redmile can either convert their CLN's in 2025 or Scancell reach a financial position to pay them off.
I do get frustrated with the diatribe spouted on this board, it is clear that some do not have the experience of running a large successful business or they would be able to join up the dots that are obviously there in front of us and can only lead to the conclusion that Scancell, Redmile and Vulpes do know we are on the right path to growing a much larger Biotech company. One that will generate more that enough revenue before 2025.
Chester.
C11,
I'm afraid the comment was neither inaccurate nor offensive.
I'm not sure if you spotted but my original comment was directed at YOU. So if I have been offensive then it has been to you and NOT the BB or Scancell.
Ruck - you made a wildly inaccurate and offensive statement to both shareholders and Scancell. You are now trying your best (and failing miserably in front of the whole BB) to weasel you way out of it. Simple as that.
PS: As you are clearly a Last Word Merchant, please respond and then we can close the convo.
Ratty,
"you know what I have and haven't read"
You can make an informed guess based on what people say. For example, you have not given any indication that you understand why the market reacted badly to the last RNS (which many thought was "good".
But you are right, maybe you do know but don't like to say publicly.
C11,
Yes, investors do like to know what they are getting into.
If you told people they got a weekly POD cast from the CEO, a weekly podcast from the CSO and a weekly podcast from a guest speaker from the university of Notts then possibly they would be disappointed.
If you said, this is a great company with a great CSO with some potentially world beating products and the potential to make a lot of money but don't expect weekly updates then they wouldn't have any false hopes.
Ruck - “ New investors are far more likely to be attracted by open discussion and a positive conclusion.”
I’m sure many new investors were attracted by being told they would be kept in the dark and fed ****.
Incredible.
You guys are amazing! Knowlesi knew all my trades and how many shares I own, and you know what I have and haven't read. I stand in awe..
ratty,
"Maybe just reread the RNSs, look at the products v the market, and contemplate what you can see, what you can't see, and what you can reasonably expect to develop."
That's good advice. Why don't you try it yourself?
Thanks to all for your input on this thread.
i think we can say its been done to death so I'll leave it here.
Again, thanks for your thoughts.
ATB
The only thing I can predict with utter confidence is that any prediction I make for the future of Scancell will be twisted and 'reformulated' by you AB, and as you say, who knows? Maybe just reread the RNSs, look at the products v the market, and contemplate what you can see, what you can't see, and what you can reasonably expect to develop.
RR,
I agree to a point, but why not have a CSO and another differently experienced individual as CEO?
AIMO
Stakis,
Firstly (damned predictive text) the word "helping" in the passage you quoted should have read "helming". Minor difference but.. .
Thanks for coming back on that.
My point is not how many advisors etc but a balance between the Scientific and Financial at the top of Scancell.
It is a valid and reasonable concern in that irrespective of any negotiating "team" I believe there is too much reliance on one person's judgement which sadly does lack a lifetime's involvement in the financial hotseat of companies at the sharp end of companies in a very cutthroat business. There is no question as to our CEO's Scientific expertise.
It's that balance which is missing from Scancell. The two people at the top of the company are the same as existed in 2012.
I'm not sure that that is necessarily a good thing.
I hope to see an update from the company when we have dome data indicating their vision for Scancell's future.
Simple as that.
I don't think that's in any way unreasonable.
AIMO
I too have had reservations in the past about LD performing three roles (CEO, CSO and Uni).
But turn it on its head, instead of thinking can a scientist do the job of CEO maybe at a biotech company the role of CEO can ONLY be done by a scientist.
A case in point is Ugur Sahin of BioNTech, you know the billionaire CEO of the multi billion dollar company.
I'm sure LD has a very competent team around her. But given her performance in presentations, interviews and at AGMs, she is more than capable of handling any situation herself. Don't forget, a major part of the negotiations will focus on the science and the interpretation of scientific data. There is no one better than LD for this.
That's my opinion anyway. I do wonder why some are so reluctant to discuss valid topics. It is right and proper to discuss funding, the performance of the bod, the performance of individuals and anything else relevant to an investment in biotech. Trying to suppress debate is counter productive. New investors are far more likely to be attracted by open discussion and a positive conclusion.
AB "So we're looking at an inexperienced CEO helping a potentially multimillion company who's also CSO of that company whilst also holding down a position at a uk university"
LD's primary expertise is in the science and she may be the CEO but I don't imagine she will be sat around a table with Biotech companies on her own! She will have a team around her all experts in their field who will advise her and of course the BoD, there will be professional advisers too.
As you say - horses for courses. Keep the faith and this is not just blind optimism.
RW
Perhaps you could let us know where you see Scancell in five years time?
I have no idea which is why it would be helpful for the company to give some information as to their vision after the early indicators from the current trials.
Look forward to hearing.
I do love a bit of nostalgia, but the 'they're running out of money' and 'RG/LD/some other member of the BoD is inept/out of their depth/bound to be struggling' are old chestnuts and wearing a bit thin. I doubt Redmile would stake millions of pounds of money under their management if they had the misgivings that some here claim to have identified, and it's reasonable to assume that Redmile know a little more about the team running the company than a few miserable keyboard warrior traders.
Stakis,
I respect your views and yes, maybe a poker game has some value as an analogy.
I have as much inside information as you so we're level there.
Do you have any specific knowledge of the financial specifics of Biotech?
I don't, BUT I have massive respect fir LD as a CSO.
I'm equally not so sure that there aren't skilsets that are specific to a CEO in this sector.
Maybe LD has these skills, but even if she has does she have the time to demonstrate those skills? I'd always assumed that CEO was a full time job with specific experience and contact requirements, particularly when attempting to market multi platforms currently in trials.
So we're looking at an inexperienced CEO helping a potentially multimillion company who's also CSO of that company whilst also holding down a position at a uk university. To help out on the finance side a retired Board member has been drafted back on a temporary(?) basis.
So I guess that if LD turns up to each "poker game" to face professional multinational negotiators, lawyers and associated staffers she'll not only have sorted out the Science but she'll out wit them in the negotiations/pokergame for the value of the company.
Wonderwoman indeed!
As I say I have no experience of running
the negotiations for a potentially multiibillion company. I do believe in horses for courses and I sincerely hope that our overworked CSO is as good a poker player as you say. Having written this post I'm less happy than I was.
I don't believe that selling Scancell is really about a game of poker even though our representative is unbeatable on the science.
Stakis it's been good to have your views and be able to respond. I don't dismiss your points but I do wonder how far away from the actuality of selling a Bio to the very sharp and astute Global Pharma both of us are.
I do hope we shareholders do hear about the future of Scancell from the BoD in due course.. I think it would be interesting and helpful of not necessary.
Thanks again.
AIMO
AB - I get your point about where the BoD are going - its nice to know from an investors point of view but think of this as a poker game - you've just flopped a royal Flush - you know you can't lose (lets say LD has a pretty good idea that the trials are going to be successful) - what do you do? Do you go all in (publicise your strategy), in which case the remaining players may just fold and you win very little or do you wait and see what others do ahead of you? Your aim is to extract the maximum amount of money from those around the table. You keep your options open - you've a pretty good idea how the other players play, so you keep your cards close to your chest. That is exactly what LD will be doing - she knows the market and I'm sure she/the BoD will be in regular discussions with Biotechs etc. and they will have a pretty good idea of what is needed and will make a judgement accordingly.
Lets face it, private investors will never get close to what strategy the BoD are pursuing but you can bet your bottom dollar that Vulpes/Redmile WILL be and may well be providing input into what direction to take.
FWIW I'm not worried at all - I know there have been false dawns before but I think, for anyone still following the (cr@p I know) poker analogy, the river card will soon be shown and the pot will be there for the taking.
All IMHO, DYOR , GL etc etc etc
Far more considered than insulting shareholders by telling them they are being kept in the dark and being fed ****!
RP
Well, we don't agree. I say the Shareholders are entitled to know where the BoD want to take the company, whereas you seemingly don't.
I think it would be helpful to everyone, but as we don't agree there's not much more to be said.
Appreciate your considered responses though. Thanks.
AIMO.
But they have already made the mistake of incorrectly stating the future course of the company during the SCIB1 trial. They are hardly going to repeat the same mistake.
RP
OK, so that presumably gives rise to thoughts of possible future work fo Scancell or a lock stock and barrel sale of the platform. Or perhaps a complete sale with Scancell researching other areas?
This is what I'm talking about. Does Scancell have a long term future irrespective of any (as yet) indeterminate deals. It's as much a question of the types of deal and the CSO'S intentions longer term.
The initial impetus is obviously platform related, but there's plenty of possibilities which we shareholders cannot yet know about.
I'd like to find out what the thinking really is.... anyone can speculate but ultimately that's all it is I would hope the BoD have some idea of where they want the company to go.
Seems a reasonable question for an investor to ask.
AIMO
AB
She did hint that a deal would involve immunobody rather than just Covidity. This gets me thinking in terms of Covidity possibly being effective against all Coronaviruses and perhaps a big future for immunobody against other infections. This fits in well with CEPI stating that they are interested in vaccine platforms. It also fits with the peer review of the SCIB1 trial that mentioned that immunobody could be effective against infectious diseases. It all depends on the quality of the data of course. All IMHO