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I think this will recover a little over the next few days.
Maybe back to 13p.
Hopefully an RNS tomorrow clarifying everything that's been brought up.
Super ramped and now all the investors have been crucified. It’s a shame and I feel for those who listen to rampers.
Isn't it profitable again though? I thought that is why it went up. The high interest has been known about a long time right - nothing new
Truth you’re being cynical...
All we are talking about here is a promise to inject capital into underlying businesses by way of a loan to its holding company’s holding company (the top line ownership) in return for a controlling stake in a newly inserted company in the middle of the structure, but want nothing to do with debt and so the remaining minority shareholder has to bare that alone, and pay interest at the end of the contract regardless of the fact the new majority shareholders decided to write it down to nil anyway on the accounts and call it quits to make the accounts stack up better. But when I say quits I don’t mean quits the interest still has to be rolled up and paid, by the ultimate owner of the corporate structure because that’s who the money was for and their underlying businesses but that’s okay because ownership is now shared 49/51 so the debt burden is shared oh no forgot it isn’t is it. Well anyway at least the underlying companies got the cash they needed to move forwards, oh no they didn’t actually did they they wrote it down and called it quits. But okay at least they kind of did get the help and the owners were smart to have taken on that debt alone having given away all of the company to another holding company and then accepted less than half the equity value they had there before they agreed to borrow the money to help the other companies that didn’t really receive the money because it just made sense to call it quits and have the accounts stack up.
Ok well at least they decided to take on a lot of debt and at the same time more than halve their assets, and pay 18% interest on a loan that isn’t there anymore. That should work out really well and all inside 12 months! Atherton shareholders will be so happy when they read the annual results.
Just give it a rest Truth you’re being too hard. Didn’t you read the results?! One of the underlying companies has won a couple of new contracts this last year!
As I mentioned in a different thread, you have misunderstood the nature of carry interest in this IMA
Okay it’s pretty straight forward if not detailed and is just round numbers.
20p x 702.4m = £140.48m
To realise this in cash from an acquisition of underlying investment in the portfolio companies would have to be net of 20% Dbay commissions = £175.6m
This represents 49% of £358.367m.
Like i said it’s not exact and doesn’t allow for hidden fees and tax and what have you, nor cash in the bank once liabilities have been paid.
But it’s about there and doesn’t warrant the multiple hahaha’s in my opinion. Unlike you saying that the share price should be worth 20p+ even with a market cap of £100m... do you actually know how all of this works?
I’m not taking anything away from the underlying companies and their future. But their future isn’t your future this investment company is so far removed and financially disconnected
100M market cap would put the share price at 14p, you’re both talking nonsense. The stock right now should be valued at 20p+ even with a ‘100M value’ (which is absolute garbage btw) purely based on its successful growth, brand and future prospected
Elygold please tell me how you calculated a market cap of 360M at 20p share price ahahahahahahah
Akin to the IOU’s set up with offshore trusts small businesses fell foul of over the last few years.
Dbay agrees to put money into GWSA
LDG bare that as a loan owed to Dbay in return for 51% of GWSA.
As it’s inter company the receipt into GWSA and debt standing at LDG is written down on accounts to balance out nil, but Dbay still get the 51% shares. And the 18% is still compounded and paid upon maturity at 2025 because it’s still a loan even though written down to nil for accounts purposes.
Furthermore, during the reporting year in a non-cash transaction, as part of the disposal of shares in GWSA, the Company novated and offset £53m of amounts owed by and to group undertakings. No material gain or loss was recognised as the intercompany receivables and payables have been written down to net nil as at November 2019 ahead of the disposal...
So Dbay loan LDG in return for 51% of GWSA. LDG then owe those funds into GWSA. But as it’s inter company both sides agree to write down to nil.
So no cash changed hands but Dbay got 51% of the shares of GWSA? And LDG pay 18% compounded quarterly up to 2025. Is that right??
Regarding PIK interest share it states that it was conditional upon achieving investment company status on AIM, and as of 30 Nov 2020 year end that hadn’t been completed so not shown any further.
Just caught up on the announcement. Clearly the market is slightly disappointed (though it’s an illiquid stock so hard to conclude much), which I can only imagine would be down to the lack of an announced corporate action. The interest in ES is performing well, surely better than expected. There are 2 mentions of the PIK notes in the announcement though the results only cover the period to Nov so they are coy about these.
Better value today than yesterday, certainly grown into its valuation. Still not screaming value though DBay will look for an exit at some point so there is a potential crystallization event that will underpin the price I think.
Accounts should be publicly accessible even if not ‘made’ publicly available... via companies house. But they don’t have to be filed for some time and things may have materially changed by the time you get sight.
As a shareholder in the investment company holding shares of a shell company holding shares of the holding company GWSA you should be able to get sight of them I would think. Track the other accounts of marcelos and LDG though to see where slippage occurs
Truth. I wonder if the GWSA accounts will be published which would probably hold the answer. Based on revenue if you brought the payment cycle from customers forward by 30days you could reduce debt by £65m just by being paid earlier
It may pay to write off or write down a PIK loan, if your ownership has been originally structured in a way so to not be totally disadvantaged by it, knowing an acquisition would return a greater amount. Stab in the dark there in truth
Another typo 2020
I see you’ve been a member here since Nov 2000 Ryno... were you also told about the upbeat earnings that would be announced and takeover of the business this year?
You will likely have done okay so far if you played it right. Consider picking apart the RNS in detail minutia... before you’re left scratching your head
Okay then you’ve misread the chain of messages there. RNS positive for the stock? Did you see the reaction? The RNS was a positive spin on some positive things for the underlying portfolio of companies involved.
Can you tell me what positive messages came out of the RNS for the stock? (This stock. Your shareholding of LDG)
I encourage you to do that please. I’m being sincere here. There is a reason you cannot make any sense of it and how it shows you the best of one thing but never the worst of another. This is a very technical calculated plan going back many years across changes of ownership. Don’t even ask how can it continue through those changes... there were linking pieces and people at all times. Very clever. Probably absolutely legal, but know what you own and what might happen next.
Truthfactory, there was a question in there that you are ignoring. Were the maths right this morning or this afternoon, you can't have both figures ending 100 million!
Despite your evident bitterness with this share, today's RNS was a positive for this stock. Can we not agree that things are better now than they were this morning irrespective of your opinion of their true value? I personally don't mind having a 49% stake in a business that's done very well in a short space of time and as we all know has a lot more contracts lined up.
ElyGold I'm afraid when you say 'Sorry I was saying that what you said makes sense. I was typing on the move which is why I was wrong' is an ass turning over!
To be honest I was hoping for the RNS to be clear but having read through it a few times it's clear as mud, it seems clear that GWSA have turned things around and are now doing well, I will be reading the RNS again later though.
Oh forgot to add... and so in reappearing as knights in shining armour or at least ‘the best and only option for all involved’ (and with a very large stake in the company that’s now so quickly been taken from the gutter to the top) I wouldn’t be surprised to see a buy out of the company from the very same people who were interested previously only to sensibly withdraw to lack of forthcoming diligence information from ESL when it was requested.
How things have gone full circle. Only you’ve had the business ‘stolen’ from you in the process. Not stolen... legally re adjusted as a thank you for stepping in and saving LDG.
Exactly. Surprise surprise.
I think Nails just clarified a point earlier, and I’m grateful for that. Not sure it’s turning ones ass over. And not sure why everyone is down on anyone who dares to put forwards actual numbers to a point of view.
Anyone quoting profit figures and debt reduction numbers... the company you have shares in is LDG... they have a minority stake in a holding company of another holding company of a portfolio of businesses that have done really well in a short space of time. Namely because they weren’t actually doing badly in the first place, but a rout was engineered after acquisition interest in order to put the offer to bed, to ‘need’ to be rescued by the people that created this hugely long winded corporate structure 7 years ago that was never necessary, that has now assisted them in diluting the underlying assets and value of the company that you own shares in.
What is the actual performance of LDG? Not the sub company’s sub company’s portfolio of sub companies, but the actual company you invest in... those results... do you know how they’ve done since December 2019? Do you know the change to assets and liabilities and Nav and earnings per share and equity value per share of LDG?
Not wanting to hear about contracts that ES has engaged in that’s all brilliant but you don’t own ES... so how has your company done in all of this?
Don’t forget the “rns will report nothing” Ryon. He’s an absolute joker that gets kicks off this site. Think the opposite to what he says and your quids in!!
I never post on these sites, due to a range of people commenting on stock without any knowledge of their background or interest in what they are stating. ElyGold and truthfactory you have made major statements on profit and debt and today been proven way off the mark. ElyGold you had your ass turned over earlier this morning by Nails and now you are clasping at straws. Truthfactory you made claims about 33m profit and no reduction in debt. They've made 50% more EBITA than you claimed and reduced debt by a third yet somehow you arrive at £100 million. Either you were wrong before or now, which one is it??