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I don't need to justify anything lignum. It is apparent! Oil, I did not imply they were inefficient. I said apparently which is obvious if the Chinese think they can do the work cheaper. It is also apparent because otherwise there would be no costs for management to cut. If you have any more self indulgent questions please take them up with the Chinese or Kier management and not with me.
Drawdown - I have worked with Kier many times, both bidding and with senior leadership. They are not inefficient as you suggest - the vast majority of their projects are delivered on time and on budget. They are also not making obscene profit margins and are can easily compete with the best construction companies in the UK (and probably Europe).
Please explain what you mean by inefficient?
Drawdown - whether you meant "apparently or "obviously" highly inefficient please justify the statement.
Tgemuir Stop punting your own book. Markets don't work that way. If you have a valid argument make it but don't get personal.
Ohh Drawdown doesnt' like Kier. Sorry about that!
Kiers going to play a small part in HS2 Drawdown and the Chinese are not.
Sorry, meant apparently not obviously.
Oil novice if that was the case we would not need hs2 just the Government to spend the money slowly. The purpose of hs2 is to help support development up north. Tarp was a emergency measure, hs2 is not.
Government has hinted that despite not being aware of the Chinese wanting to get involved, they will investigate. Let's hope they go with the Chinese or at least squeeze the obviously highly inefficient kier so we keep our taxes down while freeing more Government funding for other withwhile infrastructure projects.
Like all other ministers in Boris's cabinet, Grant Shapps will have to do as he is told.
Just seen Grant Shapps, Sec of State for Transport, on Andrew Marr this am.....he laughed off the approach from the Chinese, said dismissively that he had heard about the proposal and that it was probably just a letter from the Chinese to the Transport dept.. He also said that the Government had not been in communication with the Chinese and that there was no way that, in the UK, the project could be done as quickly and cheaply as the Chinese proposal claims.
Good posts oilnovice and arnieibb.
Drawdown - because it keeps British people in work. It means we procure British supply chain and the £100bn is redistributed through Britain. It stimulates the British economy.
With CRCC the majority of the £100bn would go to Chinese workers and directly into Chinese economy.
Generally, that’s the point of high cost infrastructure projects - to stimulate the domestic economy.
HS2 is more about stimulating our economy than building a railway.
It’s similar to TARP in 2009 in USA.
Good for Britain and BJ in talking to the Chinese. Why should we all pay higher taxes to subsidies a higher Kier share price!
BJ is a complete fanny
I think we all need to take whatever is said in the papers with a pinch of salt.
You can rwally only trust the FT for these kinds of things as they tend to dual source before publishing, but tjis is them quoting a building magazine interview and a source in government. We don't know what source and if you look at how wrong the newspapers got the musical chairs last week you'll know their sources need a degree of skepticism.
If you can do it why would you bring in the Chinese? It puts you in the league table for civil engineering capability with Africa - where China pretty much own the place! If you are marketing an outward looking capable Britain you do your own infrastructure.
In my view its a very hard sell.
All through the election campaign the message was get brexit done and keep out the marxists.
Now we are letting the marxists in?
Very strange policy and not a winner for the next election. Or maybe its so far off that Boris and Cummings don't care?
I know he didn't instigate it but this is the perfect choice for Cummings. He wants to do things differently, upset the status quo, make British companies become more competitive. Why not bring some one else who can do in half the time and at half the price.
To me this looks like a big f### you to British civil engineering companies. It actually says "preliminary talks" that says the UK are very interested. This could also be part of a global Britain with new relationships Outside the eu.
I don't think it's that hard of a sale to the public. Most people arlready consider construction projects to huge money pits and time overruns anyway.
On another note is the procurement process in the EU only for companies that are based in it? Is the freedom the UK has now.
Who's knows tomorrow they could be complete bull
It is a terrible idea for sure, but not sure if the speculation can be described as a load of rubbish, given that HMG has confirmed it is in talks.
There was opposition over Huwawai, Boris went ahead anyway.
There was opposition over HS2, Boris went ahead anyway.
It is not inconceivable that in the face of opposition to this idea Boris could go along with it anyway.
It would be a total national humiliation if he did so, I hope he realises that.
This is funny. So could CRCC do it? Yes. Would it be cheaper and faster? Probably cheaper (they would need to use local labour) but not as fast as they think due to planning, public consultation, compulsory purchase, heritage assets and archaelogical digs. Crossrail was full of the latter.
People will say but they can build a hospital in 10 days, it depends what you class as a hospital!
Then there is the political fallout. Boris is Brexit personified, and both his tory mates and the country will be shown that Britain isnt just a mid league player but a low league player and we should be ashamed of ourselves if we cant build our own infrastructure! Politically I can't see it happening.
Someone on the thread said what about Huawei? Totally diiferent scenario - we don't have a company that makes british 5G equipment and really that boils down to who do you want listening to your conversations? America or China - see Cisco then CEO from 2010's blasting NSA for taking their goods in transit to companies and then installing dodgy firmware so the NSA had a backdoor! The govt would know this and will be using VPN tunnelling sw to counteract it so the GCHQ guys would have advised America's claims as being total BS
All in all its a load if rubbish just like the claims Kier's debt was being sold off on the cheap by banks 4 months ago.
That said undoubtedly the share price will fall Monday . Sadly as I'm long!
From their website and note also how much they have invested community projects.
Eiffage Kier is proud to have been appointed by HS2 to deliver civil engineering works across an 80km section of the new high speed rail link between the Chiltern Tunnel and Long Itchington Wood. Our scope of the works includes 17 viaducts, 5km of green tunnels, 22km of road diversions, 75 overbridges and 24 million cubic metres of excavation.
Good post, do they really think that after the turmoil innthe sector and subsequent re-emplyment of staff that Boris will allow this to go outside. We have probably better expertise here, it's just not about speed and costs. There's a level of assurance you'll get from UK companies that you cannot get otherwise.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/boris-johnson-bets-on-hs2-to-deliver-new-spine-of-uk-transport
Notice to proceed on major civil construction contracts, originally signed in 2017, will now be issued by the Treasury, allowing work to start on building tunnels, embankments and bridges for the track from London to Birmingham.
You imagine the outcry if our Government outsourced this and dents support our own UK based companies....never happening in a million years... We are the UK!! A brilliant UK as Boris put it... no way not a chance
This is huge, i can't see how people expect much resistance behind this considering the experience china have with hs rail- also BJ turning it down at half the price. This could also be huge publicity for them and lead to many more project in the UK. I can't see them letting this opportunity slip even if they lose money on it just to get the publicity. Incredible- I was not expecting this but I think it was mentioned previously in the press- last year??
Expecting a big down day Monday. Yes I do also have a large holding here. Crap.
"There's absolutely no way a state run communist company could operate in the UK. Not a chance"
What about Huwawai?
I don't think many voters had this in mind when they gave Boris his majority
No can’t see that happening. No chance