We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
@ InTheVoid, very last one, just replying to judge
@judge-mental, checked with my broker lloyds/halifax definitely not
Just for interest BlackRock...
like others tells you how lending benefits investor returns..
Then
Of the BlackRock mutual funds that participated in securities lending during the 12-months ended December 31, 2020,
approximately:-
53% of the funds earned less than 0.01%,
31% of the funds earned between 0.01% and 0.05%,
9% of the funds earned between 0.05% and 0.10%, and
7% of the funds earned greater than 0.10% of the total net assets of the fund
My current account does just as well...
https://www.blackrock.com/us/individual/literature/brochure/us-retail-securities-lending-brochure.pdf
dai i made a formal inquiry to ajbell and was told via email that they do not lend clients shares at all! and neither do they share " trend data" or trading patterns etc to anyone under any circumstances anonymous or otherwise! Obviously they have their own funds so i am assuming they use that data to aid their own products which is fair enough.
Dia,
Thanks, bach
l‘ve always read all your excellent posts,
however, when BC passed 50 consecutive posts,
it became too repetitive. :-) lol
Take care
GLA to all genuine HE1 posters.
85K, that is something that has not crossed my mind, just need He1 to make it relevant to me and everyone else here :)
Thanks..
Everyone is protected by a financial serves compensation scheme, but only up to £85k per broker so it is wise to hold several accounts with different brokers.
Sorry InTheVoid for making you read more of this thread ;)
@Phantom25,
looks like ISA accounts are the place to keep your shares safe from being loaned.
The thread turned out some good info after all
the links missing part
trading212 . com
Some drivel from 212...
https://helpcentre.**************/hc/en-us/sections/360003157957-Share-Lending
Do I own the shares that I purchase?
==============================
We hold the shares you invest in on your behalf. Whenever you invest with Trading 212, your equity is held in custody at Interactive Brokers. They are the biggest broker in the world by the number of daily trades, holding 160B US dollars in client assets.
What is Share Lending?
===================
Banks and traders borrow shares when they "go short" which means betting that a stock's price will fall. This is a common practice and increases liquidity in the markets.
The borrower of the shares always provides collateral to the lender to safeguard their investment. You can read more about 'Securities Lending' here
https://community.**************/t/securities-lending/6783?u=l.d
I cant open the link, could be a browser issue??
How will Trading 212 execute the Share Lending?
=========================================
We will loan out some of the shares we hold on your behalf, and we will earn a modest amount of interest on that which will help us maintain a sustainable commission-free model. Share lending will be executed only for Invest accounts.
Will this affect how I can trade?
==========================
Not at all.
Even if a share is lent out, you can sell it instantly whenever you decide. All lent out shares would be supported by cash collateral, and you will still receive any dividends due. All of this ensures a seamless trading experience.
You can see what percentage of your shares with a given company are being lent out by accessing the Securities Lending Indicator.
What about ISAs?
===============
Shares held in an ISA will not be lent out, and are excluded from the program.
Can I opt out of share lending?
==========================
No. "Once agreed to", the share lending cannot be discontinued in your Invest account.
If you decide to opt-out, then you’ll have to liquidate your holdings and request account closure.
Since 212 needs your agreement I expect you do not have to agree, but they make the effort to get you to sign. but I am not an expert..
It would Interesting to know once 212 loans out the shares what collateral to the PI gets in return to safeguard their investment? lol..
Roly You are wrong
I said technically you do not own your shares the broker does
The company that you have invested in has no idea who you are. You do not appear on their list of share holders, you have no rights to attend an AGM or vote or take advantage of shareholder perks(store discounts for example). There is nothing to stop a broker selling your shares without you knowing, if you logged on to your account they would still show as owned by yourself when infact they could have been sold. The broker is obliged to register 'your financial interest' in a nominee account to protect it from creditors, but there is nothing stopping the broker breaching that obligation and dipping into those shares to sort out it's own financial problems. There is only 2 ways to own your shares, go back to the old days with paper certificates or have your shares held in a crest account, but that can cost thousands, HL charge £7500 per year per account for Crest
https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/managing-your-money/2019/11/07/what-to-do-when-your-broker-goes-bust/
I used to use 212, and i definitley had an email about lending out my trading shares (not the ones held in my ISA though)
the purpose was to keep trading 'free' it explained, I cannot recall if the acronym was TTCA, crap broker anyway if you can even call it that, poor spreads, slow to execute and gods knows at what price it would execute at either, binned
dai2belts, I have no reason to doubt what you say in that D-Geemans may have posted as you detailed, but it is an FCA breach for any authorised broker (and Trading 212 Limited are FCA authorised) to solicit any retail client to sign up what is known as Title Transfer Collateral Arrangements (TTCA)
The FCA actually contacted all Brokers in August of last year with regard this topic.
https://www.macfarlanes.com/what-we-think/in-depth/2020/fca-warning-on-title-transfer-collateral-arrangements-under-cass-what-should-firms-do/
What is also apparent is that Trading 212 Limited were in 'discussions' with the FCA around certain concerns the FCA may have in their activities!!!
https://brokerchooser.com/broker-reviews/trading-212-review
I will leave it to Trading 212 to work out said issues directly with the FCA, but they should never be asking retaiil clients to sign TTCA agreements.
Cheers Inthevoid,
I was making assumptions and comparing with RobinHood, part of their income was from loaning their PI's shares.
Maybe RoleyBirkins 212 account is different to D-Geemans who posted "A little while ago 212 wrote to me and made me agree to 'loan' my shares(had to tick an agreement box)" ?
Pub time :)
And I will have 1 for ITV
Agree, well said, I think that waiting for the next RNS is sending people ‘light’ , as they say in Norfolk.
You pay no fees with the likes of 212, so they make that back from the commission they gain loaning your shares.
If unlucky 212 pi's get shorted with their own shares, and they signed up to it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More drivel I am afraid. This time from dai2belts.
Trading 212 Limited do not loan out any retail investors shares....
They are an Agency broker under the FCA authorisation system and have duly signed up to hold client assets in a segregated account/s'
They actually make their 'commission' by way of a 'turn in the price' and thus do get compensated from trading for retail investors.
They trade on the Stock Exchange Trading System (SETS) as opposed to the more keenly priced Retail Service Provider (RSP) and thus they take a small turn in the share price.
It may come as a shock to many, but when you buy shares through a broker you do not technically/legally own them, the broker does says Phantom
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is dangerous and incorrect.
Your broker is acting in an Agency capacity and buying on your behalf.
Your shares that you buy are held independently through a Nominee Share Service in your name within the nominee account structure.
Your broker has to segregate 'client assets' and is FCA obliged to reconcile its client account/s daily.
Should you wish to 'allow your broker' to use your assets then you have to step away from CCAS (Client assets) and sign Title Transfer forms (TTCA) - This service can only be offered to 'Professional Clients' whether high net worth or institutional.
You pay no fees with the likes of 212, so they make that back from the commission they gain loaning your shares.
If unlucky 212 pi's get shorted with their own shares, and they signed up to it
It may come as a shock to many, but when you buy shares through a broker you do not technically/legally own them, the broker does
Harpman asked earlier 'who's shares are they borrowing?'.
4/5 Of my holding is in my HL ISA but 1/5 is with 212 trading. I'd been curious to see how 212 worked without fees and no lower limit on size of trades. That was my first HE1 buy (and I couldn't put any more into my HL ISA in March) and is currently around +190%. A little while ago 212 wrote to me and made me agree to 'loan' my shares (had to tick an agreement box) or they said they'd only allow me to trade to reduce my position. No more buying of shares. Nice.
Anyway, since the holding is outside my ISA I'll be selling anyway at some point to move inside the ISA. Then I'll close my 212 account as I'm not overly impressed.
Anyone else had that with 212?
Has anyone considered Bronte hold a long position but have taken a short to protect from downside? Are they reporting a net short position or just short position?
Either way, as another poster says they are in the markets and therefore required to take positions in trades to make their bonus. They will be marginally more right than wrong if making a profit....
Borrowing
Who's shares are they bowing to short?
Hey Candid - you want a tip from an Australian? Here's one - buy some more, I just have. There, feeling less uneasy?
Silly question time; 0.5% of what exaclty ? not the total amount of shares outstanding surely ?
Candid, Mitchells have a reputation to uphold. Should a "tip" be found out, what you are implying, Mitchells would never ever find a customer for their drilling firm..for what? A commission on a 0.5% short?