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Kenny . Thanks unfortunately I did not see it as its been deleted but its par for the course with some people . All water of a ducks back
Well if you can’t see that he’s trying to manipulate this board daily your more of a fool than him...good day
Well done open you can buy more cap-x now.
JH please something nice about me even it is I am a lucky sad old man. My AFC have gone up from 5p to 25p in a week . Happy days
In a previous discussion I did establish in FY17 that royalties income was $0.7 million which came in equal measure from AVX and Murata so if interested you can work forward from that
Thank you for your thoughtful comments as at least you don't ever resort to personal insults. I do however have one advantage over you in that we have listened to the promises /fine words for many years now and they have as yet not delivered . So I am sceptical always as about what is claimed . Having said that I have a considerable investment here and I like you hope for success, it is just that I am less convinced than you as to whether it will happen . As regards other people's decisions they are not my concern . I just call it as I see it
Openspaces, from my understanding royalties revenue has doubled since 2016. Royalties revenue are only one part of Cap-xx's revenue. Royalties revenue is not the be all and end all. The reason I focussed on royalties was because you were commenting about the lack of licence fees. I was trying to explain to you that the royalties revenue may well surpass the need for licence fees and be more lucrative than licence fees. I would think Cap-xx take all this into account during their negotiations for licence agreements.
In my opinion, Cap-xx will be doing their best to grow all revenue and not only the royalties revenue hence why in their annual accounts for fy2019 it stated that they were growing their salesforce.
I know you have no intention of deramping the share price, however negative comments like yours may inadvertently lead to some shareholders selling their shares at a loss. Unfortunately there are some small investors who may well be influenced by this board. Please think on this.
My apologies royalties have for many years equated to about 18% of total revenue but this increased in FY 19 because other revenue fell dramatically, This doesn't mean that that royalties have gone up at any dramatic rate but that like for like other sales have fallen . What I don't understand is the constant comments that royalty revenues will drive us to profit. I believe that it is other product sales which should be the priority and will make the real difference. . I have no intention of persuading anyone to buy or not to buy but if the last couple of weeks is anything to go by then I have saved them some money. Equally if they bought based on ramping advice then they have lost money. I don't incidentally believe any significant investor makes judgements based on this board
Openspaces, how are royalties one sixth of revenue when royalties revenue for fy 2019 was A$1,076,225 from total revenue of A$3,204,551. This is closer to one third than to one sixth. It's my understanding that there were no licence fees at all paid in fy 2019. It was all royalties. AVX paid their licence fees in 2016, 2017 and 2018.
There are rampers and derampers of shares.
I think your negative comments may inadvertently cause deramping of the share price by frightening some shareholders into selling their shares at a loss.
Please think on this before commenting.
Royalty and license fees were 1/3 of sales actually.
I guess your wrong again OpenSpaces, but there’s no surprise in that.
Sorry about that Iwgrod . Unfortunately you don't accept that not everyone has to accept your viewpoint . Meanwhile the SP is down at 3.5p. I suppose that my fault !!
So currently royalties represent on sixth of revenue and other sales/revenue circa 84%. It therefore makes sense to concentrate on growing the 84%. Of course the costs of growing the 16% are less pro rata but it still a minor revenue stream and will remain so for years to come. Still lets hope the FY20 royalties revenue explodes.
Openspaces, here are the expenses for Cap-xx for Final Year 2019:-
Annual Accounts - Final Year 2019
General and Administrative Expenses - A$2,084,468
Process and Engineering Expenses - A$914,453
Selling and Marketing Expenses - A$743,678
Research and Development Expenses - A$1,547,361
Share Based Expense - A$859,483
Other expenses - A$71,822
Total Expenses - A$6,221,265
Cap-xx need revenue of A$6,221,265 to break even. The goal of Cap-xx in all their recent annual reports has been to break even.
Cap-xx's biggest assets are their patents, hence the court cases for the same two Cap-xx patents against Tesla Maxwell Technologies, Ioxus and Cornell Dubilier Electronics (CDE). CDE have agreed a settlement. It is the same Judge for all 3 court cases so he knows CDE has already reached an agreement with Cap-xx.
Cap-xx have licence agreements with Murata, AVX, TDK and CDE. The more large companies selling Cap-xx products the better for Cap-xx because Cap-xx products get more known, more widely used and become the go to products to buy.
Cap-xx have added 3 more licensees in the last 3 years AVX, TDK and CDE. AVX in March 2016, TDK in October 2018 and CDE in July 2019. Cap-xx are getting there.
Think of the saying, slowly, slowly catch your monkey.
Sad old man nothing more ...empty life
Tank man
The AVX fees have always been transparent. What is about you that has to turn everything into a negative. You don't lie just misconstrue everything into some sort of word game to discredit the stock. Does my head in. Sad old man. I'm off out of this board. GLA to all decent holders. PP1 is a breath of fresh air.
People you clearly have a much greater and in depth knowledge of this industry than I do and I recognise that. I don't try and speculate how wonderful x and y products are. I look at the basics including the route to profit. To date AK has promised much but has by and large failed to deliver on those promises i.e. all the hype has not turned into sales/revenue. I believe CPX has to demonstrate more recurring revenue. Items like the AVX fees at the time simply disguised the underlying profitability of the company. Now whether that was a conscious decision at the time who knows but the facts are at the moment we are where we are with the gap between total revenue and total costs is not closing at a rate of knots
Openspaces, I think Cap-xx may do licencing agreements to suit what's best for Cap-xx at the time. So if it's better, for example, to go for upfront licence fees with maybe a reduced royalties percentage then they go for this and if it's better not to go for upfront licence fees with a higher royalties percentage then they go for this.
Also the type and number of patents may come into play for which is more lucrative, i.e. upfront licence fees with maybe a reduced royalties percentage or no upfront licence fees with a higher royalties percentage.
My thoughts and others may have other thoughts on here.
The initial AVX fee was £1m sterling. Then there was a second one paid early (not sure the amount). Then there was a third of £750k I think , Still matters not . When they were included they simply reduced the loss
Openspaces, I have shown below the annual revenue with the amounts for licence fees and royalties revenue from 2016 to 2019:-
2019 Annual Report Revenue was A$3,204,551 - Licence fees and royalties revenue was A$1,076,225
2018 Annual Report Revenue was A$4,905,687 - Licence fees and royalties revenue was A$1,366,369 (however Licence fees and royalties revenue for 2018 was stated as A$2,215,070 in the annual report for final year 2019)
2017 Annual Report Revenue was A$4,142119 - Licence fees and royalties revenue was A$1,224,290
2016 Annual Report Revenue was A$3,156,448 Licence fees and royalties revenue was A$1,809,000
We know that in 2019 there were no licence fees paid into the Licence fees and royalties revenue for 2019 so the A$1,076,225 is all royalties revenue for 2019. We know that there were licence fees paid in 2016, 2017 and 2018. We know the licence fee from AVX paid in 2016 was A$1.26m so that may mean the royalties in 2016 could have been A$549,000 and in 2019 the royalties revenue had gone up to A$1,076,225 so royalties revenue is increasing. It looks to me like there may be more money to be made from royalties in the future. This may also be a reason for what may seem as a lack of licence fees as well as the number of patents and what patents companies wish to licence. The number of patents and what patents licenced may be more lucrative in royalties revenue than licence fees in the future. I would think Cap-xx when agreeing licences will take into account which patents may be worth more in royalties revenue and which patents may be worth more in up front licencing agreements hence why there may be a difference in licence agreements. These are my thoughts and others may have different thoughts they'd like to share here.
I did speculate Openspaces by saying in my comment below - My thinking, I may be wrong, is the licence fees and royalities may well depend on how many patents and what patents a company is licencing.
Where do I say we would be better off not receiving such fees. I don't and you know it. I am simply saying that recurring revenue is needed moreso. If you are looking at comparison eg royalty revenue then one offs are not recurring and will not lead to true like with like comaprisons
So OS are you arguing that we would be better off if AVX didn't make those one-off/ three off payments? Weird. maybe they were in lieu of court judgement penalties? I'm not saying just asking.
People All the AVX info and much of what you post is known to LTHs on this board and has been discussed at length before. What you have not speculated on is why AVX paid three separate "up front" instalments (totalling over £2m) while none of the other licensees have. The point I am making is that such one off payments (which were made in years in which we never came near a profit) so much so that when they when they drop out it makes getting to a profit that much harder. Its not rocket science . Having said that royalties are only a relatively minor revenue stream at the moment so while any increase is welcome it will not truly affect the profit situation
Thanks pp1 for your answer.
While reading your post, I started to wonder: 5% on the volume of sales of supercapacitors. Which price should then be the basis : this could be a wide range: the bare bill of materials of a supercap, the ex works price, the nfsp (net factory selling price) or the sales price ?
Does anyone happen to know this or what the normal practise is in these kind of arrangements ? I can imagine that this would be the sales price (where I also hope for...) since this is the only “public” price whilst the others give a lot of company insights like margins etc..