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..to average (at best).
"It's a dialect thing".
Fair.
"you was wrong"
*you were wrong
It's a dialect thing.
"you was wrong"
*you were wrong
"Now you have looked it up, If nothing else you can show off at work in hush hush "Telecoms" and tell all those that need to know whats going on and who owns what, you may get a promotion after your fact finding mission, or maybe people will get tired and yawn in your general direction."
Faultsman have you been skipping your medication? I don't see any point to your mini rant. I was just pointing out that you was wrong and I was correct, surely you are grown up enough to accept when you're wrong!!!
Fleccy, has the fact that BT own the lot and pay for whats required gone straight over your head, if Openreach want it and BT dont then it does not happen , you can call that control if you want.
Now you have looked it up, If nothing else you can show off at work in hush hush "Telecoms" and tell all those that need to know whats going on and who owns what, you may get a promotion after your fact finding mission, or maybe people will get tired and yawn in your general direction.
Another reason to sell, stop people squabbling over it.
Faultsman, earlier I stated "OK, if we're being specific, BT owns Openreach and Openreach controls the access network including ducts and telegraph poles."
To which you replied "Fleccy, nobody asked about costs, and Openreach do not own the network assets. They do not control the access network, BT control it as Openreach do not have the land rights"
Faultsman, by your reckoning, it would appear that Ofcom also don't understand how it works, I would guess that one of you will be correct!!! Please see below
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2017/bt-agrees-to-legal-separation-of-openreach
"Assets will be controlled by Openreach alone. Openreach will have control of those assets – such as the physical access network – required to deliver on its purpose. The Openreach Board will make decisions on building and maintaining these assets: BT will hand these powers to Openreach, while retaining a title of ownership."
In theory BT wouldn't be able to reduce their prices in an anti-competitive way and would be restrained in doing so by their input costs (including from Openreach), although fair to say they should be able to leverage scale economies from their current customer base.
Yes, absolutely right, nobody's going to be interested in serving the hard to serve areas and those living there are going to make a lot of noise if they are asked to pay more...which brings us back to the politics.
Perhaps governments should just stop squeezing BT and create an environment where they can see a real return in investment. Think I may have heard that idea before?
Blupete, I agree, however the government would no doubt then treat BT as just another holistic provider and let them charge what they want to, and close down many other providers overnight, but then they may come down on Openreach as hard as they could as everything and everybodys gripes would be down to Openreach, (who would care? everyone, as who would get prioity,? the people that paid the most for openreaches service or any other telecom contractor outfit)) or it could get swallowed up and become a government department that would once again be answerable to nobody, perhaps re-brand it as GPOpenreach. Look at Australia and New Zealand for example, it has already happened years ago and it works but people still complain as nobody wants to supply a fibre cable 600 miles down a farmers driveway, for the 10 bucks a month the farmer wants to pay.
Thanks FM. I've never worked for Openreach or the likes and acknowledge that my level of understanding is limited. Having said that, and recognising I may well be considered a heretic for saying so, I've long thought that BT should seek to sell off Openreach, both for the value that could be generated from the sale and also to free BT from all the 'baggage' that comes with ownership.
I understand some people will say OR is the value in BT, however I believe freed from the regulation and legacy 'culture' of Openreach, a 'liberated' BT would have the opportunity to exploit the potential of an exciting marketplace with huge potential for a well funded progressive and innovative business. I don't doubt there would be challenges for them in that but for me they're just going to continue to tread water if the current set up and restraints continue.
Bluepete, your correct, but much of the confusion appears to come from those that purport to work in the industry, or speak like they own the place, perhaps its early days I mean its only been like this since 2006, perhaps the message will eventually get home. If you work for Openreach then you have no connection to BT, even your payslips say Openreach, sure you have a BT pension if you worked there long enough, but thats it.
BT are heading down their own path, and so are Openreach, eventually it will become clear that one doesn't need the umbrella of protection and imposed restrictions via regulations designed to stop a monopoly anymore. A board of directors that report to the people that pay there wage, I mean come on
Fleccy, as you say, Its no concern of mine who you work for and what you have done and do, its just I am surprised that there is still obvious public and media confusion about BT and Openreach, that includes many of those that work for Openreach. BT staff are much clearer and easier to deal with than those who hide behind the Openreach bullet proof vest.
It's notable how often that there is discussion and 'debate' on here about openreach's responsibilities and assets. The comments often reflect confusion and differing views. Given that a number of people on this forum are probably better informed than 'general public' can't help think that mis-understanding is even more prevalent amongst those not as close to the Telecomms industry.
I'm not sharing my work details, but I've worked in telecoms for 37 years. In that time I've worked in customer and network facing roles, with experience in al aspects of PDH, SDH, DWDM, Microwave radio, Cisco switches and routers. I've also worked in Network operations roles, involved in monitoring, Fault finding, building circuits and controlling support engineers in network build and fault resolution. I have extensive experience in the Engineering side of telecommunications.
Fleccy, nobody asked about costs, and Openreach do not own the network assets. They do not control the access network, BT control it as Openreach do not have the land rights. Openreach maintain and install Bts network on behalf of all the service providers that care to use it, Openreach work on all of their behalves equally and fairly. What telecoms do you work in?
"Fleccy, you ask me what I think BTs core domain is, let me just point out that you praise Openreach and state they own the poles and network, at least I know who owns what! "
OK, if we're being specific, BT owns Openreach and Openreach controls the access network including ducts and telegraph poles. As someone who works in telecoms, I can tell you that Network Equipment costs have dropped dramatically, so replacing legacy PDH and SDH equipment's with newer DWDM solutions, equipped with the newer OTN Flex cards isn't that expensive in relative terms. The fibre rollout and 5G upgrades are the expensive bits, but BT seem to think it's doable in a cost effective way. We all have a different perspective n the positives and negatives, I'm just a lot more optimistic than you lol. I'm not interested in what the rest of the market thinks, I have my own opinions and make my own decisions. The lower BT goes, the more I intend to top up and we'll see where we are in a couple of years, whatever we say now is meaningless.
Velo, no apology required.
Fleccy, you ask me what I think BTs core domain is, let me just point out that you praise Openreach and state they own the poles and network, at least I know who owns what!
BTs core domain is Network, a global business has been built on the back of it, yet its being forgotten, overlooked and neglected, it needs uplifting and bringing bang up to date by BT so they can secure their future. A bit here and a bit there is not enough.
Go ahead and tell me Im wrong, tell me that Bts core business is paying a smart Alec to look smug and spiel about 22 lightweight puffs punting a ball round a field.
" why the foaming at the mouth? "
Apologies if that's the way it came across.
Hey Velo, if you think I rely on the long term forecasts to two decimal as fact then you are wrong, its not Harry Potters wand? why the foaming at the mouth?
Look at the trend, its down, even you can work that out, you can use a 1000 words to try and buff it up but I will not be reinvesting any more until there is at least a substantial sniff of a long term turn around. Not interested in short term smash and grabs.
Faulty, you do realise Poundf is compiled using TA (Technical Analysis metholgy?) That's a big change in your psyche then. Poacher turned gamekeeper eh :)
Checked it out last year, and instantly guessed how they were doing it because they gave a very wide min and max SP band - that's not dissimilar to a momentum trend line where a twin trend line skips across all the lows whilst an upper trend line skips across all the highs, extend them into the future and you have a min and a max with a wide margin as Poundf show. The big confirmation clue is in how it handles dividends.
Not a TA charting, candlestick, indicator nor oscillator, in the entire world can handle dividends, particularly XD Day. They all - ALL of them - including mine go into meltdown on XD day, and become hysterical screaming their feckin' heads of with SELL! SELL! SELL!
Forget which company I tested first, but one of the 3 or 4 co's they monitor had a dividend due. And true to form after the XD day every single future forecast right through the website swung wildly lower, and slowly eased back up by payment day or after in most cases.
(LOL So couldn't have been BT's divi I used on that occasion).
Ever noticed that the big forecast 1 and 2 years into the future changes constantly?
Example: You posted only last week on Nov 5th that BT's -
SP for June 2020 next year as 233.16
Friday night's close Poundf is now showing June 2020 as 157.59
(That's another classic sign of TA at work, quoting SP's to TWO decimal places of fractions. Now that's usurping Nostradamus. TWO decimal places? LOL)
Bit of a massive change there don't you think? So what are you forecasting for June next year - 233p or Friday's 157p? - Which?
Short term is absolutely fine. Worth looking at. But it's beyond every human, every computer on the planet, other than pure luck, to predict consistently, next years' prices.
The reason for the change is quite simple. the current price EACH DAY sets changes, and triggers all future prices, so a different price by close next Friday means a different future price on PoundF. Nice if we were all allowed to change future predictions the closer we got to it.
I've found short term, using the current month/next month to be quite okay, interesting as you imply, but the long term forecasts 1 and 2 years into the future? - feggedit! There are no free lunches. If you KNEW the SP 1 and 2 years from today, wouldn't you first make yourself a multi billionaire and then CHARGE a fee to everyone else who wanted your service? Nice of them to give it away for free. Short term, yes worth a look. Long term forecast?- not humanly possible.
It's a momentum trending price channel technical analysis forecast - not Harry Potter's new magic wand.
"Not sure why the Hahaha, its the most reliable and often extremely accurate forecast". I followed the Tesco share price and this site were miles off. Basically a monkey typing numbers, absolute dog sh*t of a site lad.
"BT are concentrating on everything other than there core domain and need to tread careful. My opinion is my opinion, I am in long and holding, hopeful there will be something left for me when the BT piggy bank gets smashed open."
Faultsman, what do you perceive as BT's "core domain"?
Is this from that poundf website? Hahahahahahahaha
Not sure why the Hahaha, its the most reliable and often extremely accurate forecast, if you keep the historical data and compare its remarkable, it cant forecast failure, fines or private management decisions, it adds those as they occur, it does struggle around divi time as thats sentiment, to keep or sell and depends on good or bad news at the time., again factored in as its happening.
Appears we are waiting for news around football rights rather than a new government backed UK fibre network, its not looking good win or lose really. Win the rights spend a fortune, lose the rights lose a fortune, its hard to see positives such as winning the rights when the debt created is so high yet the rights and income are so short lived. Your either all in or all out. BT are concentrating on everything other than there core domain and need to tread careful. My opinion is my opinion, I am in long and holding, hopeful there will be something left for me when the BT piggy bank gets smashed open.