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Hi 4k - I had mixed feelings about the JV. when it was first mooted but I guess I was swayed by the prospect of a divvi as well as the then value of our sp (I'd doubled my original investment by then).. What I did not expect was that the divvi would be stretched out via 3 tranches over a longer period. I feel that we were led to believe that Tavshan would soon be producing and that Salinbas would fairly soon makes wealthy. I reckon that the time factor was not realistic and even now think it could be perhaps 10 years before Salinbas reaches the " winning post" .
Meanwhile KS has, imho, gone overboard by poking about in Kosovo and Asia in general and I must concede, in hindsight that johnpwh's viewpoint about the JV effect was sounder than my own. Right now I would like to see the whole shebang bought out by one of the bigger guys in mining whereby we would get at least double our current share price.
As for Cyprus - I totally agree with your thinking and willowman on this chat board ( I'm guessing about a year ago) cast similar doubts about "HA" in that mix. Cheers, DJ
I rarely post here but am in agreement with broad agreement with johnpwh on the Ozaltin JV. I never liked this JV and said so at the time. With mine life extensions at Kiziltepe and the real promise of quite low hanging tasty fruit at Tavsan I always thought we'd be better off doing it ourselves and contracting the mine build to Proccea or similar.
I concluded (though I may be wrong) that KS is factoring in the threat of a future (or current) Turkish government confiscating assets from foreign miners. Or at least mking life more challenging. I wonder if this was part of KS's thinking in diluting our share?
Venus Minerals - I think I've said this before but looking at the mineral grades and assets theer I also wonder what the heck we're doing in Cyprus and with the name Harry Adams in the mix too. I hope something good comes out of this but won't hold my breath.
I read that as Proccea are not giving their services free! Surely the 8m is JV money, not for Ozaltin to use to pay their obligations to another party? I've said it before, that 76.5% was given away very very cheaply considering the costs that AAU had already incurred there in licencing, administration and drilling already preformed.
John, I'm wrong about the Proccea question. What Ariana said at the time was Proccea were contribution their value by providing their services free. At the AGM it was confirmed that Proccea will be doing the heavy lifting and we can only assume that this is at no cost to Ariana. I'm not sure to what value this is without looking back through my notes. I assume Ozaltin must be paying Proccea from their £8m agreed injection, so presumably the total cost will be £8m plus whatever Proccea have agreed to contribute. Hope that helps.
VanVan
What can I say except I agree.
PG is getting facts wrong, which implies that maybe AAU comes fairly low in their list of important clients. I don't think anyone with their heads screwed on takes much notice of the SP predictions of a company broker, as that can clearly be seen as biaed or subject to manipulation as a condition of their continued appointment. Trouble is that with a minnow there aren't many, if any, alternatives!
I note the SP ended the week a few % down, despite the AGM, presentation and a tick up in POG. Don't suppose that will worry the BoD!
Hi John,
Interesting post. Lots of good points imo. Yes I agree, Chris would make a good Chairman. He has lots of experience, is level headed and seems to have a good dollop of common sense.
I asked about the IPO as the last two A.R & A's say the Preliminary Economic Assessment is underway. Same words used. Surely they need to complete this PEA before an IPO?
I agree I don't think the Procea question you raise was every satisfactorily answered.
P.G. made an error re the Tailings Dam capital cost to Ariana and inferred that Kiziltepe could in the worse case scenario cease before Tavsan kicks in. This is not aligned with the Boards view, so seemed unnecessarily negative for the House Broker. Shore Capital have recently been appointed Broker for Scotgold (SGZ). Their Note shows how it should be done. And P.G. had just returned from a Kiziltepe mine visit for goodness sake at our expense! Brokers also only remain fresh for a few years. P.G. deal with much bigger clients and are long in the tooth with us. They haven't even done a full note based on the new strategy post Transaction. Board succession and Board strength is a vital issue to be addressed imo.
Kerim continues to treat it as his baby - a new, stronger Chairman and another Board member, perhaps responsible for Corporate affairs and communication (City Analysts, Institutions, the Press etc.) would be a welcome move forward imo.
Hi Van, two reasons I didn't go to the AGM. London was predicted to be far too hot for me and secondly I would rather be lied to in the comfort of my own space with a cup of tea in my hand. It seemed to me that the meetings went the way I expected without risking an unofficial strike by the transport workers.
I may well come to a presentation in the future, maybe when/if I feel less prickly than I do. Be really good to catch up with you too.
You were there in person so more able to judge than me, but Sener just calmly expressed the company line which in fairness you might expect. I found the Chairmans behaviour unprofessional, he acted like a headmaster scolding a pupil speaking out of turn. I think his days as Chairman should be at an end, I have read elsewhere that he is well beyond the tenure regarded as good company practice. He seems to feel entitlement to that position given that he is the largest non institutional shareholder. I voted against his re-appointment, would be interested to see the figures.
My question, posed before, ignored before, was why did Proccea get handed exactly the same proportion of the star asset in Turkey as AAU ended up with, for which they never contributed anything financially or in effort over the years? We were left with 23.5% of a preciously wholly owned asset. Proccea got this share for no payment whatsoever. How can that ever be justified? Or at least it should be justified to us. Now of course we know that the Ozaltin prime contribution for their huge windfalls are as schmoozers. Great company? Or lifestyle company? I may discuss that sometime in the future!
I don't get as upset about PG as some. They certainly don't seem to fulfil what I would expect them to a company broker, but equally I am not convinced it's what we should be most upset about. Equally the Venus IPO delay is understandable if you consider Copper price compared to 6 months ago. Any IPO would be at the lower of the expected price range and and proceeding now would result in even larger loss of control than we expect (I am expecting to be left with 25%-30%). Why not be bold, release an RNS delaying the IPO, invest further in Venus from the cash pile to take a controlling share and get the plant and mine in production - for when the copper price that will surely occur in the era we now live in? There are signs the green shoots of that recovery have started.
I did see Chris Sangsters video, it dates from June unless I saw the wrong one. Came over well, although the prediction of 2025 production at Salinbas made me smile given the appalling track record of delivery AAU has. I might be prepared to consider 2030 reasonablexo I wont rush down to William Hills to put my hard earned on 2025. How about CS as Chairman, I could be persuaded that was a reasonable idea?
Sorry should have said at the end “with little apparent desire to change…..”
At least we have the payout in October to keep us content .
What was the question John? Sorry I didn’t see you at the AGM. Just 5 of us turned up.
My questions were also doctored or ignored I’m afraid. Kerim’s defence of the indefensible re PG was farcical imo and did himself no favours. The Chairman was rattled and did the Co no favours. It seems to me we need some new fresh blood as many agree. We need a new Broker and we need more specific details on milestones , timings and value accretive events. Reintroduction of a Gantt chart would do nicely. We need better, more strategic, shareholder aligned communication. We keep plugging away at the weaknesses, which all apart from Kerim can apparently see. The June presentation by Chris Sangster was better and more strategic and shareholder aligned imo. Did you listen to that. A great Co just hiding the assets and value under a bushel with like apparent desire to change the status quo. Frustrating or what.
Nice to see a POG finish over $1800 of Friday
I will give it another listen over the weekend. I may have got it wrong but my impression when I listening live was that Sener and MDV were a bit patronising, more or less saying 'this is what we have chosen to tell you, spun the way we want to spin the information, and we will answer the questions we choose to answer'. Sener chose not to answer the question I tabled, probably on the grounds that its now old news so isn't relevant. The fact that its old news now is at least partly due to the fact that the question has been ignored several times in the past when it was, of course, newer news!
Sorry Paul but I don't " buy" Venus. It's not the time delay that's " suspect" - it's the Company structure imho. Anyway, as you suggested previously...it's a time to sit on yer hands for the present. On my side of the pond some SPs are slowly creeping upwards again.
I’m happy, as suspected the Venus delay is due to market timing and everything else is smoothly operating.
I will not be selling for another five years, so it is a hold for me, let’s hope they pay dividends from Tavsan during that period.
And the rest of the UK…Owen Patterson / Randox springs to mind.
Hi DJ
And Scotland
Agreed, john. Add to that most of Central America , China and a lot of places along the " Silk Road" .
Hi Shortarm
If I thought that JV giveaway was necessary, shall we say, politically rather than a poor business decision I would sell out. That is why I avoid most of Africa
John, I believe that Ozaltin are extremely influential in the permitting arena. Extremely..........
Investor meeting. Question from the floor, essentially what do Ozaltin bring to the party to earn their 53% other than money? Cutting through the waffle answer, the actual answer is bugger all. So it confirms that Ozaltin, who never spent at penny in its own right at Salinbas now own 53% for $8m into the JV and (from memory $2.5m) a small direct payment to AAU. Now getting a deserved hard ride over Panmure Gordon. They seem rattled, they should me. In fact MDV is being dismissive and rude
We have had 2 special dividends. A 0.35p a 0.175p and another due in October of 0.175p (not yet xd) if approved at the AGM. After that no definite plans for regular divis just vague talk, but if/when it wont be anything like .175p
what do we reckon for the divi? 0.35 paid previously which they can well afford, a nice 10% return on shares bought today...
Well there's you answer Stranger. Silence is golden?
No DJ, hands firmly in pocket. No sales from me, at least until xd on the divi
You aren't reading those trades correctly..... The first was a sell and immediately the MM's dropped the ask!
Good prelude (NOT) to the forthcoming presentation. SP is slightly up today and over a million shares were " unloaded"
Wasn't you, john, by any chance?.
Maybe Stranger. There is always a suspicion that will happen where there are presentation in which 'no new information will be divulged during the meeting' takes place, Doesn't often happen but then again it sometimes does! has been a bit of appreciation in the SP, so here's hoping.