Member Info for WolfofWarks

Hi Jeff - not too sure where you got that from mate

https://www.investec.com/en_gb/welcome-to-investec/press/investec-advises-cineworld-on-takeover-of-regal-entertainment.html

Hi Jing - lol that’s just bought back memories of binding behind the sofa when the provident lady came and my mum didn’t have the money to pay her.

She had probably spent it on having a whole sack of spuds delivered!

‘ Tbh this whole debate is boring and pointless. If you want to believe HSBC are main lenders then fine. If you want to believe it makes any difference if they are, then fine.

There are many more interesting and significant things at play here than this minor distraction.’

Agreed although it’s still more rewarding that debating with Elvis.

Jeff - Investec were advisors to Cineworld.

Jess - they don't put the money up - investors subscribe to the loans. Like what happens in a capital raise.

There's not much else that can be said at this point if you still think HSBC are the main lenders.

Read the investorpedia link I out up yesterday.

Hi Jeff - corpoatre deals are usual syndicated so you have a leading bank (which looks to be Barclays) and then others run the book with them (HSBC). The investment firms then put their hand in their pocket and lend the money.

I expect they would have sold them at open if not surely after. Don’t see what the commercial reason is for HSBC holding onto corporate bonds when they are the role of facilitator. If they did I would expect them to be named in the DIP consortium, which they are not on the initial opening day presentation.

Jeff - this is a very basic description if the role of an underwriter.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/underwriter.asp

Hi Jeff - Cine wouldn’t have the capacity to arrange that type of loan with all those different investors. You need a bank to sort it as they have the resources and the capacity.

I know in your heart you want Ian to be right, but he’s not.

‘If you believe financial journalists run the show’

When did I say this lol. I’m not a corporate lawyer. I very much doubt you are any kind of professional the way you conduct yourself on here. Maybe a petulant uni accounting student perhaps, or the office pencil sharpener.

Hi Jeff - I think the underwriter may well pick up any unsubscribed stock and sell it at a future date. I don’t see them holding long term because their piece of pie in the deal is all the fees from Cine and the individual subscribers.

Elvis - Wirecard even admitted themselves they had 2 $2bn black hole. What do you think this is some media fuelled propaganda or something. My life ...

They are different parties playing different roles. HSBC underwrote/lead the financing. They basically badged up the loans and sold them to the takers. This is commonplace in these type of raises. The title of Ian's link even says 'Banks to sell US$4.3 billion-equivalent loan for Cineworld’s Regal buy'.

Hi wellington - I think you have me mixed up with Quinny. I’m in my prime, nowhere near retirement. Not a lawyer either.

How am I self confessed? You have no idea of my background or experiences. You’ve got this all sussed out haven’t you. Oh hang on a couple of hours ago you didn’t even know how much debt CW had. You couldn’t make it up.

Ian - HSBC and Barclays underwrote the deal. There is a difference please look it up. We’ve even seen tonight that they are not part of the senior finance, maybe an RCF in the background.

Mooky can have a part in Newco if the new owners decide they want him at the helm. Why do you think he cannot? You might all have a slice in Newco if this goes well.

The judge is not king, his role is supervisory. This will go down to a creditors vote. You’ve attached yourself to the sears case but you still haven’t told me what happened to the equity holders in that scenario.

The sale is only one route. Credit Suisse are in the DIP consortium, so are one of the senior lenders. The main junior creditors are CP and their judgement and then BNY Melon have a £213m Convertible bond.

‘ Wolff, big 4 take too much in advisory fees? Have you not heard the Big 4 are separating their audit / non audit business in 2024? Slaughter and May charged $2.4m in ONE MONTH, pwc charged that for the whole audit!

Oh, and by the way, Slaughter and May charged a big chunk of that for “advisory fees on the RNS” and even it seemed ran / were the major contributor at the audit committee and wrote the minutes!! (as pwc had a bit part role due to their no needing to be involved in half year process).

Check your facts Wolff ….’

The fees are not really comparable. One is for an accounting/audit service and the other for legal fees for probably the most expensive corporate actions a company can go through. The fact you correlate them is madness.

You talk about facts but your entire theory is based on supposition.

‘I stand by my interpretation of the lawyers bill and an ability to read between the lines, your position is that you will believe a journalist or wirecard and replay that situation. 1:1. Suggesting you have not been at the sharp end of the reality how this gets played out. ‘

Elvis - you conduct yourself like a child. It’s a shame because we could probably have a decent conversation otherwise. Therefore I think some of the things you are claiming to have done professionally are most likely fantasy.

I’m not too sure what you’re rambling on about but in the case of Wirecard they were spot on.

Investec are advisers to Cine. They brokered the regal deal.

https://www.investec.com/en_gb/welcome-to-investec/press/investec-advises-cineworld-on-takeover-of-regal-entertainment.html

Hi Jeff - it's difficult to judge because as far as I can see the price of a cinema ticket seems to be at basement prices, so they need to put many more bums in seats just to stand still. My local Vue is £4.99 now so that's what they are competing with. I don't know if pre-covid margin or profits are even possible. This could be a consequence of the poor slate and perhaps prices can be ramped up in the future.

Then you've got to look at where the future growth is going to come from - how can cinema change, diversify, etc, to make this an attractive opportunity rather than a value stock or a cash cow. I mean beyond whatever the outcome of the C11 is.