Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
19.85p - I have bought more at this insane price but I am still very unhappy!! Shouldn’t be possible.
I saw a post in recent days that said something like “another crap share”. I assume this post did not have much thought behind it but I actually think it makes a very powerful point.
Much to my dismay and many here this is looking very much like a crap share. The market is making it a really rubbish thing to be holding.
That does not change what the COMPANY is doing. This is a world apart - SXX in the real world marches on and has a plan that is working so far and a plan for the future.
I find this SP an insult and I find the behaviour of those that put it here disgusting.
I am still holding strong and have no interest in trading in and out as I don’t want to be part of something that is undermining the company profile because of how people think i.e. the SP reflects the company - in the case of SXX I don’t see how they could be more disparate.
This is just rhetoric and I apologise but I am furious that this is going on with the SP when there is a reality out there that says this is a series of successful actions by a competent BoD that are fast heading towards extreme success.
This morning is a perfect opportunity to understand why we suffer a drift in SP thanks to incompetent PIs who are wrongly invested in SXX. Anyone who doesn’t see how simple this is should take a look at all the automatic small volume sells at 22p - a very obvious stop loss set by people who have no idea what is going on with SXX and in my view should be invested (or trading) elsewhere.
How can anyone be following SXX and know that a quarterly update is imminent and there is a RNS around the corner yet set a 22p stop when the SP is hovering circa 22.5p??
These people are just offering a plethora of shares to those who want to invest for more than a day or two. They can come in and mop up every time. This cycle continues and we stay with a suppressed SP. My biggest concern with this is that any share issue based finance solutions are more expensive to us all. The painful irony here is that the SP will be double what it is now once these deals are set.
Well there can’t be really because it’s always been speculation and theory. Some worthwhile detail and evidence of progress with the financial plan that makes sense and looks something like the plan is coming together. (I do love it when a plan comes together). Hold tight and watch as SXX closes higher today than yesterday.
SXX might be deemed successful already by those currently employed at the site.
Each milestone that passes might be deemed a success.
Setting something up to a point of inevitability of success is probably the actual point at which success is achieved - not when all actions reach a specific conclusion which in this case is probably perceived as making a profit.
If profit is your only gauge of success then I suggest you look at the balance sheet of very many very well known names of companies that employ thousands of people and drive sections of the economy but ultimately return a loss.
My individual success with SXX will be either making enough capital gain to pay for my house or still holding enough shares at dividend time to make my annual income very comfortable.
The success of the company goes hand in hand with that.
An interesting comment many have made before.
I bought some new issue shares- tried to buy many many more but got what I was given- I contributed to the likelihood of SXX success.
I think it’s a fair argument to say that if you buy and hold SXX without trading in and out you increase the likelihood of a stable and strong share price so you do help the company by creating a strong reputation and perception to the markets.
However, if you trade SXX and add to the scrabbling in and out culture you do the opposite. If you never bought first issue or new issue shares then you haven’t contributed directly to SXX success.
Big difference!
I might advise you that it’s cold out and you may want to wear a coat.
Talk to an Advisor if you are investing your hard earned cash and want their expert advice.
As differentiating between ‘their’ ‘they’re’ and ‘there’ is proving difficult enough this may be a bridge to far!!
Smile - it’s Friday!
Thanks Casapinos. Yes it is as simple as that I guess. I am unfortunately easily offended by what I perceive as a lack of loyalty to this project. This B.B. does appear to consist, in vast majority, of genuine LTHs who hold very similar views about the project and many are very well researched and offer huge insight via their posts. It therefore feels hard to accept that there are doubters and non believers out there.
I will take some comfort from the fact that those who are less researched, more fickle and fragile etc. and currently in and out of SXX like a frenzied cuckoo can only hold a limited number of shares! So let’s assume they represent the 6-8m shares that we see traded on most days - these will go quickly when the demand is for hundreds of millions of shares per day so as long as the rest of us hold tight and slowly drip our shares back to the market as our personal circumstances may demand (hopefully holding on to the majority for most here) then the price will have to rise to entice us.
I can only commit to holding tight up to the £1 point. I will probably be tempted then. The capital increase versus how near is the dividend by then will be a very interesting equation for most. I do admire the going nowhere until dividends brigade.
The long term picture for SXX is good and getting better as time passes (and closer of course!) but I realise that I actually find it insulting that the SP behaves like this today after what amounts to national and international recognition via our parliamentary coverage last night.
Holders are off loading their shares - whether we like to think otherwise or not, the truth is there are more shares offered for sale than requests to buy them. Since 9am this morning SXX holders of whatever background or position they hold are off loading these shares.
WHY WHY WHY?
The SP is not rising. It is “fannying” around - again! What is it going to take? The Commons exchange last night is huge in respect of spotlighting SXX yet we have nothing of note to show in the SP.
I do question whether some of our PI holders will have had enough of this and as the price rises (when demand for shares outstrips supply - no other factor relevant) they will sell if at break even or small profits and heave a naive sigh of relief while an institution picks up theirs share very happily for a whole pile of cash less than they were prepared to pay!
So we end up with a couple of billion shares changing hands over a few weeks and those PIs that get it wrong cost the rest of us serious money because the price will not move far then until production and dividends - why would it?
Every time something happens (and last night was definitely something happening) and the SP does nothing much and every time we have little news or activity the SP just boringly drifts off down, I can’t help feeling that SXX holders will defeat themselves as above.
I know how to make the SP rise and it really isn’t difficult if you can get a majority to behave in the same way with the same aim!! Don’t sell for the current SP!! Use the order book and set orders for more money. Don’t sell them all at once. It really is that easy but we have to stick together - there in lies the flaw.
Markets fairly stable. Is it impatient idiots selling their shares below the market price because they can’t work out how to set a sell order up asking for quarter of a penny more?
Yes it is. This lack of solidity in the SP really does make me wonder how far can it run down if the half cocked dabblers and over committed fools run for the hills if they hear something they think they shouldn’t like the sound of but don’t actually understand so they’ll panic anyway.
I’ve said it many times before and I see nothing to say it has changed - too many under researched, over exposed, weak willed and jittery people are holding SXX.
I really wish they would dabble elsewhere.
Even with today’s mostly market following drift the one month chart looks lovely. Warm feeling. Happy place etc.
We lost 20% off the SP in one day when the $400-600m CAPEX increase was confirmed via an official release. Some say the preceding drift off from 38/39p to 32/33p was as a result of the same but was a slow drift because of a leak of information and the slow but sure spread of that information.
So based on the above how are some concluding that the $400-600m CAPEX increase is going to affect the SP?
The circumstances of a 20% increase in CAPEX and a knock to investor confidence because of an alleged leaky ship have created unfair jitters.
I take the view that once the BOD knew bad news was going out they have undoubtedly made sure it was all the bad news and that it was not going to be an under estimate. So I think $600m is the true limit. Even if this is funded by issuing new shares it simply costs us all around 40% of what our future dividend could have been. The sums were huge to start with and dilution of future profits probably inevitable. I still think with this dilution that with 8bn shares in circulation a SP of £2 and a dividend of 10p will be the situation in 6-8 yrs time.
There was too much hype and too much excitement about SXX at previous points in its history but I don’t think anyone should be applying doom and gloom now for bridges that have already been crossed.
The price is already hugely damaged and artificially low. Unfortunately this does affect the issue price for new shares which is a real shame but I’m still happy to look at a 100% profit within the year, 700% over the next seven years and best of all £30k a year for life tax free (ISA!).
I’ll call an all time high of 55p to beat any previous intra-day high. GLA.
Price creep late today will be a huge indication of sentiment and expectations for tomorrow. In my opinion this could easily be a 1.5 to 2 leap at opening on simply ‘solid’ news with any generalisation that St2 is on course. With good news I can see the closing SP this week / tomorrow being 26-27p. A 20% rise with the unnecessary suppression of the last two months is a real possibility. A creep back to 35p pre St2 finalisation end Q1 will be in the cards.
Then the biggest and boldest hope / wish / claim from me is that the SP will reach a new high not long after St2 final plan and agreement is announced.
When I type this out I realise it is from my rose tinted perspective and is speculation but it feels very feasible to me. I don’t sit here with crossed fingers I just sit and think through what the plan is and what the business model looks like and I think ”why wouldn’t it be reflected in the SP?”.
To calm things a little and to allow an explanation for some of the angsty entries on here I offer the following - when there is a real and tangible feeling that good times are coming but they keep being scuppered for one reason or another it makes for a tense mood in some. The anticipation is huge here and the potential enormous. Many of us have life changing prospects ahead with SXX even with a very conservative estimate of what may be. The truth is there is an ever increasing likelihood of this being a very successful and lucrative process. There is risk but it’s most certainly not early days - quite the contrary in my opinion. We are very close to securing the money that see this project though- as such, tensions are rising.
I am heavily invested here for reasons I am very content with. If this project fails or completes after very unfavourable deals then I can end up without some money that I can afford to lose but would rather not. If it succeeds with a degree of dilution and problems along the way that means 10bn shares are out there I will still be VERY happy. The share price has to be £1.50 as an absolute minimum and the dividend has to be 5p as an absolute minimum.
There may be better investments once hindsight or insider information are factored- outside of that SXX gets every penny in my book.
So let’s try to be more polite, respectful and tolerant and get back to discussing the pros and cons of this amazing project.
74 seagulls - you may not need a passenger jet as your 148 wings might get you there but let’s assume you risk assess flying in an A380. The what ifs are extensive to say the least. The thing is, very very clever people have worked out how to do it despite the obvious risks. They have designed machines and machine management systems that allow such an amazing accomplishment to be achieved thousands of times every day. Not too many of the passengers enter the plane with a risk assessment mentality like yours.
74 seagulls - you may not need a passenger jet as your 148 wings might get you there but let’s assume you risk assess flying in an A380. The what ifs are extensive to say the least. The thing is, very very clever people have worked out how to do it despite the obvious risks. They have designed machines and machine management systems that allow such an amazing accomplishment to be achieved thousands of times every day. Not too many of the passengers enter the plane with a risk assessment mentality like yours.
Why don’t you prove a little and seek clarity from JR before going off on one? Having seen JR’s posts for a while now I think he may have meant £1 in a couple of years hopefully. I’m not sure where £5 comes from but there are scenarios and equations for this project that could represent a 15-20p dividend. Many top companies pay 3-4 % dividend and their holders are happy with the security of their investment vs return. This will be a very secure proposition at full production and at 3% and 15p we have £5 share price.
Not fantasy. Certainly not reckless life ruining advice or comment.
If the shares are consolidated by any means all things will still be in proportion to my conservative estimates below. If we go 5 into 1 the share price would be £10 and the dividend 50p.
Dilution is not the same as consolidation. I have factored in the current number of shares in issue being doubled over the next eight years as a result of necessary contingency funds being required. This may not happen to that degree.
I have allowed for the raising of $600m by dilution at a discount to current SPand all convertible bonds being converted and probably another billion shares on top for ny business clinching deals that come with shares.