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I still hold 50k of what I consider legacy shares.
Originally I held 400k and I put my mum & dad into 150k.
We bought these as options for A$0.03 & exercised at A$0.20 so a total cost of A$0.23, these purchases were made in the 2000 financial year so we held them for a long time.
In the 2020 financial year I sold 350k & mum & dad sold 150k at GBP 2 which net of fees got us about A$3.58 per share a profit of $3.35 per share or just shy of $1.7M which is the reason why I am defensive of previous management, they did a lot for me & my own.
I added 75k to my legacy holding at an average cost of US $1.25 (using CELTF) I dumped those at US $1.40 so got out at a small profit but nowhere near what I had anticipated due to the ineptitude of current management.
I will always maintain the 50k legacy holding as I figure they owe me nothing & also due to their age are certificated and accordingly hard to negotiate especially when I live in Australia & they have delisted here.
I still retain hope in the quality of the Sukari deposit which is why I will retain my 50k legacy holding, but I & my family have profited so handsomely from our investment in this company that I have a soft spot which I openly admit.
Accordingly do not follow my investment choices in this company as they are motivated by by previous profits taken rather than my usual beancounter based investment motives :)
Your last paragraph is the key my friend, once the waste has been removed?
We have no guidance whatsoever as to the ore body that will be opened from what is for all intents and purposes a pre-strip. You do not pre-strip unless you will get rewarded, gold mining 101, if you are doing a pre-strip in the middle of an ongoing operation it normally means a departure from the long term mine plan, explanation for this departure is considered mandatory, lack of explanation is considered worrying, thus our share price.
My vitriol was aimed solely at you Tibbs, your attempt to deflect this to others is quite typical of ideologues, when faced with unanswerable questions simply move the attention to an unrelated area - I have dealt with your sort all too often in my career!
If you wish to enter into a discourse answer the questions posed to you, I will offer you the same courtesy. If you wish to engage in a more invective exchange I am more than happy to oblige but I caution you that I will “remove the gloves” and give you a real dressing down :)
Tibbs, why on earth do you think that every post on this forum must in some way revolve around you?
Why do you feel that every post must be responded to with a most often inane comment from you?
Have you in your apparent ever declining state of arrogance & hubris come to the misguided conclusion that the rest of the participants in this forum somehow require your imprimatur in order to validate or negate their own opinions?
Sir, I am all for active participation in any debate, but you do not seek participation you seek domination which is bad enough in itself but when it comes with no perceivable constructive input whatsoever it becomes tiresome and irritating.
In my opinion you are an ideologue, alongside the ranks of other ideologues such as Hitler, Stalin, McCarthy, Mao, Pol Pot, etc., there maybe some validity to the initial basis that gives rise to your opinions but your passionate zealotry has blinded you to the existence of any alternate viewpoints thus creating a state in your own mind where your opinions are not simply opinions but irrefutable truths that may not be debated.
Fortunately for us all you do not have the capacity to influence the lives of others in the way the other ideologues I have mentioned did, however, the intent of your actions is just as evil albeit insignificant. Accordingly I find said actions to be offensive and of ill intent.
There is my quick critique of your posts, as you seem to believe it necessary to provide yours to every other poster I thought you might appreciate the same scrutiny of your own :)
I think we are all getting distracted from the real problem CEY has that is causing the atrocious share price performance.
AISC is not a big issue, it is in line with what the entire gold industry is experiencing (the link Gnome provided before provides a concise analysis of this issue).
The key issue is non-sustaining capex & in particular the waste stripping program.
The recent NSC reported is 2021 FY $132M, 2022 FY $115M & 2023 HY $56M, that is over $300M or in excess of 20% of CEY’s market cap in 2.5 years - this cannot continue!
The reason the market is giving our share price a thumping is not the NSC itself but the lack of explanation from management as to why they are making these expenditures and what benefits the expenditures will create for shareholders in the future - in the absence of explanation for the spending of over 20% of the entire value of a company simple prudence requires one to question whether the current management has a clue what they are doing.
At least the much maligned precious management dug gold out of the ground, paid hefty dividends & built up cash reserves that the current team are rapidly eroding - the level of animosity towards previous management is quite perplexing.
Until the current management explain in detail why they are spending the money or show the reasons for the expenditure in the form of significantly improving production metrics the share price will continue to languish.
Cowichan, I have a lot of respect for you & appreciate your efforts in holding CEY management to account. However, please do me a favour & hammer them on the capex issue rather than getting stuck on minor accounting issues - you made a mistake in your interpretation of the financial report, nothing wrong with making mistakes especially if you learn from them - move on and continue to fight for us retail shareholders in your most effective & amusing style. I for one appreciate what you do :)
That’s my two bobs worth, I am now going to make a big pot of beef burgundy and enjoy a special dinner with my doggie (the true Lady Spoonington Woofalot)!
Cheers
Spoon
I think you summed it up quite clearly Prof, just normal commercial operations on normal commercial terms :)
I like to poke fun when it is called for Tibbs.
If you are in the mood for character advice, why don’t you try being less sanctimonious & better informed?
I’ll let you in on a secret Paul, I have 35 years of experience as a chartered accountant to draw on, you can safely assume I know my way around a financial report :)
Hi Prof
The footnote figures simply provide the net receivable/payable position at a particular date so:
At 30 June 2023 CBE owed CEY $16,062
At 30 June 2022 CBE was owed $42,922 by CEY
At 31 December 2022 CBE owed CEY $23,681
These just reflect normal movements in net positions between parties who engage is such trading arrangements much the same as any commercial credit account between a supplier and a customer.
Cheers
Spoon
You guys need to get some lessons in reading financial statements!
The ‘000 meaning thousands only apply to the columns they appear above not the footnotes. The footnotes are in actual dollar amounts so the amounts outstanding are hardly of any concern.
Sorry to spoil your pointless bickerings, you seemed to be enjoying yourselves :)
Then again people having trouble paying their power bills should consider themselves lucky they have access to power in the first place, there are many in this world who do not yet they seem to just get on & make do rather than whinge about injustices in the world.
Everything is comparative and life has always been a challenge since the human race first raised its ugly head - that is what makes it interesting :)
Maybe we need some criminal means in the picture Rebess?
The $300M reserves were built up by a management team that we are repeatedly told by many august & very well informed posters were incompetent charlatans even though they amassed those reserves whilst still being able to pay us shareholders very healthy dividends.
Now we have an honourable, beyond reproach management team our reserves have been eroded, our dividends have dwindled from a torrent to a trickle & our share price has reflected this overall malaise.
It is over 3 years since the new team took over, if after that time the best justification people can come up with to excuse their abysmal performance is to continue to blame predecessors then I fear the slide into doom may become irreversible.
Bring back the criminals I say! :)
What I find strange Cowichan, is that we have been repeatedly & authoritatively told by many posters that the waste stripping program is a result of previous management not clearing the waste they should have cleared as part of previous gold mined.
If the above were true, how then is Centamin capitalising a large portion of the expenditure and also deeming a significant portion of the expenditure as non-sustaining capital. Even a basic knowledge of accounting standards clearly shows the two scenarios cannot co-exist.
Maybe it is a conspiracy or maybe it is simply that the current management consistently fail to provide proper disclosure of material financial information in relation to their strategies & treat the hard earned capital reserves accumulated by previous management as a fund to be thrown about willy nilly without any clear justification of the benefits of such largesse.
I have no problem with waste movement, part of the game, but I have a large problem with major expenditure programs being entered into without proper explanation. Management should remember that it is shareholders money they are spending not their own & treat it accordingly, if they need to spend it to further operational efficiency by all means spend it but have the decency & propriety to explain the benefits of the expenditure.
This is the cause of our diabolical share price, the market quite rightly hates uncertainty as it reflects risk, whilst their remains no clearly defined strategy to nor benefits of the huge expenditure involved in the waste stripping program the market will continue to treat it as sunk costs no matter what fun & games are played on the balance sheet.
One can only hope that there exists a real, well though out & beneficial plan to the strategy, that way shareholders will end up being rewarded eventually through exploitation of what is & always has been a quality resource. If not we may find ourselves sh*t out of luck for wont of a better term :)
It is simple Cowichan, it has been established that the previous management were incompetent, evil & fraudulent (despite their accomplishments) therefore the new management must be beyond reproach & unquestionable.
It is similar logic to the heavily supported orange man was bad therefore a senile puppet who is pushed to remember his own name is a good president argument.
Some people simply choose to blind themselves from common sense, the Kool Aid is just too tasty 😋
What baseless & utterly unfair accusations - the propaganda machine is working well, Goebbels would be envious of what the west has accomplished in turning its citizens into mindless sheep.
Who the Chinese people choose to head their government is up to them, the western world should butt out but despite the furore over other nations supposedly meddling in western elections it is considered acceptable for the west to not just meddle but actively engage in regime change - the blatant hypocrisy is obvious.
You will no doubt say that the Chinese people have no say in their president, it is a system controlled by a small cadre of evil elites. Such an opinion would only serve to demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of the Chinese political system.
My advice, look at cleaning up the inefficiency, inequity & utter stupidity in your own political system and leave the Chinese to take care of theirs, this one simple change would immediately lead to a much safer world.
You should experience life in China & talk to more Chinese people (ones who live there), you will find that the perception of a evil, totalitarian regime running China put forward by western governments & media is so far from the truth that it is ridiculous.
Western politicians, etc feed you these lies so they can tell you that you are free & privileged whilst constantly engaging in far more egregious behaviour than that of the Chinese government.
Have a look at the improvements achieved in the prosperity & well-being of the Chinese people over the last 50 years, pretty impressive especially considering the west’s constant efforts to keep them under the thumb & subservient.
I openly admit I am biased but that bias has come from living in China & marrying into a Chinese family - this experience has exposed me a a attitude of accepting personal responsibility, valuing the family unit and a general aversion to committing crimes against others which is so lacking in modern western society.
We could learn a lot from the Chinese if we stopped trying to create conflict and bothered to share ideas & culture, I certainly have & will be forever greatful for it :)
Have you ever lived or worked in China Cowichan?
Do you know any Chinese people well?
Your rhetoric suggests the answer to both these questions is no. If you seek more contact with China & Chinese people you will find that the propaganda that you are fed is just that - ludicrously biased & exaggerated rubbish that has very little connection to actual life in China & the Chinese people in general.
Here is some informed comment on another favourite subject of yours.
Enjoy :)
https://youtu.be/6Tz1MiX1p5I
From an accounting point of view when the expenditure is classified as non-sustaining capex it is not included in the calculation of AISC, it is definitely still a cost but if you are using AISC as a metric in your investment analysis you need to take into account that the waste movement expenditure is largely being excluded from AISC so you should not expect the finalisation of the program to have any significant immediate effect on AISC.
My problem with the waste movement program is not the program itself, shifting waste is a part of mining, it is the way it has been conducted. It is often more efficient to incorporate waste movement as part of ongoing mining operations rather than a separate stand alone project. Whilst this is not always the case, I would expect detailed analysis work to be done in order to arrive at the decision to instigate such a program, why have we not been made privy to at the very least a summary of this analysis.
The lack of information leads to the problem that we are all essentially guessing at the moment, whether it be your opinion, my opinion, Kees Decker’s or anyone else’s, none of us have sufficient information to make a properly informed analysis - with the waste movement program cost being measured in the 100’s of millions I find this level of disclosure to be unacceptable.
I reduced my CEY holding back to my core long term holding earlier this week, much as this pains me I am no longer prepared to take speculative risk on the current management team.
Dasut, they capitalised $21M of the contract waste stripping & classified it as non-sustaining so I don’t think it will be hitting the AISC that heavily yet.
The fact that they are classifying the cost as non-sustaining capex is clear indication that this is not removal of built up waste from previous mining but really a pre-strip to improve future metrics. I continue to question the efficiency of this & the fact that current management have released no cost benefit analysis for such a significant & cash consuming program worries me - if they have not done such an analysis that would be negligent, if they have done such an analysis there is no reason not to release & let us know they are spending our money for good reason.
You seem to know a bit about getting gold out of dirt, do you think the lack of informational release about the projected costs & importantly anticipated benefits of the waste movement program is reasonable?