Member Info for rustybucket

Kenj, you know as well as I do the company at that time was strapped for cash, stumping up money for a convertable bond, is much different to a bank or someone else lending us the money.

People on here who post saying there was loads of options are deluded, our credit rating was not good after being cut.

I am not saying the extra $25m was a good idea, I never have. The point I am making is rolling it over on less generous terms than the existing deal was not as big a deal as some on here are making out.

What do you think they should have done, and how would they have done it. ???

Workingstiff, you think they could have got a loan to pay back the convertibles. It wasn't small beer it was $100m as a minimum, we have bank borrowing in the past, which was paid off by the larger bond issue, and people disagreed with that.

But, the bank held all the cards and we had to go cap in hand just to spend money, which is why it was changed to bonds.

The mere fact they added $25 m to the bond issue, suggests to me people were not exactly queueing up to lend us the money.
At the time were we not actually borrowing money from Gazprombank to support IRC.

I am sure it wasn't as easy, and I would "hope" they explored all the options. The other thing is When were the old bonds due to mature ?? I can't remember but if they were not due to mature its a totally different ball game about repayments.

On the last point, I can't be bothered to go back through all the old bond details because I didn't have as big a problem with it as some on here.

PVX233, I believe you may be wrong in thinking Pavel isn't liked. If there was a poll on here asking who they preferred to have a CEO I would think Pavel would win hands down.

If you had a poll asking who trusted Pavel 100% that would be a different vote. The 2 are not the same. Personally, I don't think there is anyone better qualified to run the show.

M

Working stiff, on the second part of your post, I do not think it would be good for UGC to sell up, unless of course there was someone willing and able to buy the whole lot. With the amount of shares they have especially after the conversion option, if they were to sell there would be a massive chunk of shares available and I could see the shares going into Free-fall.

However, I do not think that will happen, because, I can not see why anyone in there right mind would exercise an option on convertible bonds which were paying a coupon of in excess of 8% if they were going to sell there shares, just does not make sense.

A better option, in my opinion is that Pavel and them get round a table, and find a common ground to move forward on a positive note.

Personally, I don't think it is a bad thing to have a large shareholder, who has lots of a product that they can not process when we have the very facility to make there product into real gold.

We should not be looking at the short term, we should be looking at the longer term, in excess of 10 years, and we could be a good compliment to each other helping both companies to make additional profits. As ever AIMHO, and happy for someone to come and try to shoot me down.

Workingstiff, sorry, I disagree, I will tell you why I disagree then you can give me your opinion. Because at the end of the day, you have your opinion, I have mine. When the bonds were coming to maturity, the convertible price was about 8.5 there was $100m. They took the opportunity to add another $25m to it, that was the bad part, apart from the fact we were still not in a position to be generating lots of money, and the pox hub was not quite finished, and gold price was not at the levels it is at now.

The new bonds had a convertible price at about 12.75 which was at about 50% above the level of the first bond issue. If the first bond issued had matured,, we wouldn't have had the cash to repay, by refinancing at a higher price, I don't think the shares to be as converted are as high as would have been needed if they had matured at the due date,

I haven't done the calculation ( but, I would suggest they are getting less shares now, at the new price, than they would have if they had matured at the maturity date ).

Now, if you would like to tell me why my reasoning is flawed, I am very happy to listen. But for some to say it was a terrible decision, I would suggest they don't fully understand how convertible options work. The Big negative to me, is the fact that these were issued in $200,000 units and personal investors don't get the chance to participate, because I am sure there would have ben plenty of investors who would have been only too happy to stump up more cash.

As I say and this is open to anybody, please post if you think my rationale is wrong. I have not seen anyone comment on the forward pricing monies in the accounts or my rationale on the convertibles, just a lot of posting without knowing the full facts.

There have been many posters on here over the years, who have thought this was just a license to print money, without knowing anything about the company and the way it does business.

They profess to know it all, well, unless you are a fly on Pavels wall, You DONT.

WORKINGSTIFF, PERSONALLY, I DONT SEE THE COMPANY ever, GOING DOWN THE CONVERTABLE ROUTE AGAIN, MY TAKE ON IT, FOR WHAT ITS WORTH WAS, WE WERE DESPERATE FOR MONEY TO COMPLETE THE POX HUB, GOLD PRICE WASNT PARTICULARLY HIGH AND WE HAD CASH RESTRAINTS FROM THE BANKS..... DIFFERENT ANIMAL NOW.

L3Trader, I have never been one to complain about hedging. It has its place, it works as a guarantee, and helped us build the pox hub. Some people would say, just take the risk, all well and good when the gold price is sky high. But, what if it drops.

I wouldn't hedge all, but if we were going to get a very good hedging price, maybe not a bad thing.

As long as the cost for these does not outweigh the benefits.

Retired Banker, firstly, there is not $125m converted. secondly, where does the conversion price come into it, and what happens with the options that were taken out when the bonds were issued. I do NOT know the answer, but, it has to count for something.

One thing I will guarantee, it is better them converting now, saving the interest over the next 4 years, than converting in 4 years time with the share price at £1, after they have had their interest.

As I have said, I don't know the answer, but, I don't think it is as straight forward as you post, otherwise, we wouldn't have a book, or rules regulations and small print.

L3Trader, I dont disagree with hedging, I dont know where the gold price is going, they have been doing cap and collar hedges but, I believe not many left. I wouldnt agree with all being hedged but some maybe half at this price, would be good. The company nearly went bankrupt with Peter gambling on the gold price and getting it wrong. So very hard to predict, lets just hope we are making the most of it. Personally if TEMI is what it is supposed to be, I wouldnt mind buying the rest of it, BUT, with cash, I would then like us to amass some cash to at least pay off some of the bonds that mature in 2022 with ho[efully being nearly debt free in 2027 if they have to have another bond issue albeit at a smaller amount smaller coupon, and without convertables, but another bank might like to put the money on the table.

Personally with the way things are going there is no reason we should not be debt free by that time and be a money making machine T

Time will tell.

Davidthegrim, I would love to disagree, unfortunately, I cant, he does seem to think that because he founded the company with his pal Peter that he can make decisions without recourse.

I still dont know and cant comprehend why he left POG to take a position in the Russian Government, then coming back around the time of the rights issue, proclaimimg that he and Peter were underwriting the rights issue. We then got many e mails about put and call ptions with one eventually saying they had expired, then there shareholdings disappeared.

So th question is, Who did put the money up for the rights issue. It was the same with TEMI, a done deal without shareholder approval. Then there is IRC, A supposed sale at about half the prevailing market value at a time when IRC were probably in there best shape for years, and before the Amur bridge had been completed which would reduce there transportation costs.

It just doesnt make sense or add up. Then after the last boardroom coup when he was ousted the new incubents advised he was trying to get a bond deal through at worse rates than was agreed and he personally was going to be paid fees. Now I believe the extra fees they were talking about were something like $12m, but, as I have alluded to for many years. It is NEVER exactly as it should be, and anyone forecasting has to forecast with half of the information. All my opinion, but that aside, he does know the company, and it was his vision that helped build the pox hum.

Of course that should have been the case, it was quite clear, even though Pavel denied it, that talks took place between the 2 over possible "arrangements", whatever they may have been.

It is also quite clear that for whatever reason, UGC don't like something that Pavel and the bod have done, otherwise they wouldn't have voted to get rid of them.

There is a lot of things that we are not privy to, but the reality is, when its your largest shareholder, they are going to have some say, and the best way , in my opinion, is to try and get some positive dialogue. We don't know whether there has been any dialogue since. Hopefully, we might know more by Monday. Interesting to see how the voting goes, and who has bothered to vote.

Freddie2, I don't see any chance of UGC, dumping there shares. The reality is they have ore they can not process, we have that facility. Whilst they are shareholders there, is , in my opinion much more of a chance that we will process it for them. They KNOW, the value of the pox hub, it takes too long and costs too much money to build there own, so they want to get an agreement to process theirs. Lets see how the vote goes Monday. Even if UGC don't get rid of Pavel and co, they have still made there point, and I would suggest PAVEL AND CO SIT UP, SMELL THE COFFEE, AND TAKE NOTICE.

Retired Banker, I don't agree with you. Quite simply the company has more shares in issue, BUT, and it is a BIG BUT, It has LESS DEBT, one counteracts the other.

I believe the drop is more to do with the uncertainty of the vote on Monday.

Dark_Knight2020 They say, past performance can't be a guide to the future. When it was announced Pavel and co had been ousted, the share price dropped significantly, there is nothing the stock market likes worse than instability, so I would suggest it would drop.

If pavel and co get back in, its a case of better the devil you know and stability, of a sort. So I would expect the share price to increase, I would also expect them to make sure the board meets with the guidelines, then they get there auditors back.

I believe it would be better for all concerned to get round a table and get some common ground, rather than arguing, as long as we all want the same things, and people are telling the truth. Time will tell. anyway nearly time to get back to work.

Freddie2, I personally think that if you are voting for the old board including Pavel, that you believe him. If you believe him, he states that they were not made aware by UGC or Everest that they were voting against them, in fact quite the opposite, he said he thought they were supported. In that case, I think its a bit unfair to criticise the board for actions which are ultimately outside of their control.

There are other things I have , and will criticise, but this. I am not so sure the they are culpable. IMHO

Name JB Capital Partners LP City and country of registered office (if applicable) Armonk, USA
4. Full name of shareholder(s) (if different from 3.)v Name City and country of registered office (if applicable
5. Date on which the threshold was crossed or reached 31/07/2020 6. Date on which issuer notified 05/08/2020 7. Total positions of person(s) subject to the notification obligation % of voting rights attached to shares (total of 8. A) % of voting rights through financial instruments (total of 8.B 1 + 8.B 2) Total of both in % (8.A + 8.B)
Total number of voting rights of issuer Resulting situation on the date on which threshold was crossed or reached 3.14% 132,886,474 position of previous notification (if applicable)

Lawrence 13 Any major shareholder who is above a certain percentage, normally 3% but might be different for insitutions

Lawrence e13 see other posts. They are NOT purchases or sales, they are just updating there current shareholding in light of increased shares in issue

For EGM Monday, at 11.00 am will be on RNS here later, hopefully

DarkKnight 2020, Don't want to be rude, but I would suggest complete nonsense if UGC IN charge, because they will want there concentrate processed at cheapest possible price, and conversely if gold price goes up so will price of concentrate, but with TEMI, we would own the whole lot so wouldn't be buying the concentrate in.