Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Really interesting how anyone offering an alternative view is "A troll" or other varieties of playground insults. Nothing other than hyperbole and hope is offered in support whilst the FACTS of this company is it has an appalling record of destroying investors money, is hugely unprofitable and is running out of cash. Against any established metrics It is uninvestable, and probably would struggle to lease a coffee machine with its credit rating!
As much quality as a chocolate teapot! Keep pouring the shareholder funds and watch it melt away …
Because it's a discussion board and I see some shameless puff which I want to offer an alternative opinion on. If these boards become only a place for positive opinion, where's the value. If someone is considering Cirata as an investment, at least there are alternative perspectives to consider? On of the challenges of regulation changes in recent years has been the lack of access to commercial research for retail investors. Take a look at Ian Spence at Megabuyte as one of excellent commentators on this issue.
I'm not and never will be. I have strong opinions which I have shared in previous posts so I'll spare you the very long version.
In my view, this is the sort of car wreck that gives the AIM market a bad name. Over blown promises - terrible corporate goverance, ego inflating expenses by execs inflicted on shareholders, alongside the personal gains extracted. Even today in the new world, the senior management have been given a no lose bet in the free matching shares plus entry options without performance conditions. Do any comparatives of growth rates, ebitda, cash burn, 12 year track record of failure... there are so many UK success stories and we need a healthy investable public market - and this company is part of the reason why confidence is so low / net outflow. .. In my humble opinion!!
About £230M's worth ... with remarably little to show for it!!
or to quote Stephen Kelly.."The reality is that, since its IPO in 2012, the Company has raised $270m but without delivering consistent sales momentum." April 2024 final results RNS
This business is draining cash fast, and far from taking "soft loans" - what would anyone lend against when there's no income to speak of? If they did the terms are going to be brutal. Any interest and repayments just kick the "breakeven" point further down the road.. Back of packet calculation, say £10-15m would be the minimum to secure the next 24 months .. That's a tough raise against a business with this track record of equity distruction.
Your point about Richard Griffiths did make me pause though. He’s not on the board and is not an ‘insider’ in terms of Market Abuse Regulations (MARS) I think, so the regulator and their NOMAD would have a very dim view if he was privy to anything you or I might not be able to see in the public domain. So if you think he has that inside track - would be interesting to know why?
Fair point - gamblers paradox? This is the guy who backed the previous management after all.
More significantly for me.. I don’t see any aim tech funds buying or market analysts even mentioning it.
Thank you for some sanity here! Growth, earnings comparatives, aren’t a guarantee but they do add substance!
What I find so weird is this almost messianic belief in something that has so consistently been an economic basket case, destroying shareholder value over such a long period. The previous ceo (&president & Chairman !!) was a master at pulling people into the dream (a lot in common with cult leaders now I think about it) and although now deposed, the followers have a new leader to worship! Like the previous one however, he’s on a no lose bet. Very well paid, big bonuses and his matching share deal - (I think the share would need to be near 25p before he’s not ahead - if I read the prospectus correctly). I’m only calling this out because I’m all interests to have a healthy trusted equities market - putting risk capital to companies and a return to their shareholders.. but then I suppose we always need these outliers just to act as a warning! Does anyone know if or when the FCA investigation reports on the debacle from last year and if any fines would be against the company?
I'm sorry but cannot let this kind nonsense pass. On what planet does this company warrant a fraction of it's current inflated value? It has burned shareholder capital since listing. It has barely sold anything, and what it has sold is largely its legacy product - acknowledged in the last management reports. It has a tiny turnover, makes collosal losses and the market is demonstrating no appetite for their unique charms! Last year's bubble was on the back of extraordinary fiction, apparently unquestioned by directors who although now gone, benefited from the hype and (I think) means the company is still under FCA investigation. This is the sort of company, results, and puff which makes AIM appear such a cowboy market to retail investors. Do your research, look for qualified analysts reviews, look at comparatives .. And good luck!
You are so right - purpose of the boards is surely to exchange views! Like Walkley I am mystified why this stock is worth a fraction of it's current market cap. Look across AIM for other tech stocks around this market cap and you see multiples of their revenue, growth and profitability. Add to a history of burning hundreds of millions of shareholder equity to get here so an embarrasment to those trying to establish AIM as a credible market, it makes no sense by any benchmark. I do acknowledge they havent been out for more shareholder cash which I was expecting this quarter, so will be very interesting to see how it's loss is being funded when they give the update.
No lose bet for him .. 50% discount.. which means another cash raise / dilution still makes him looking very comfortable.
Continues the companies history, when the leadership have done extremely well, despite the car wreck of performance for investors.
Agreed - makes no sense. Great business model, steady payer and solid experienced management .
Although agree with the post on that there is "nothing new" - I hold my hand up that they have conserved cash better than expected. Cash flow challenges cripple a business since you have to make increasingly painful short termist choices, "No you can't fly to the US to meet that prospect even if it will accelerate a deal for next year"....
Other thing of note for me was the acknowledgement that their Life Cycle Management software is still delivering revenue (most of the revenue in fact) and they are diverting development resources back into it. Read into that what you will but I interpret it as the "big data" solution is not getting any easier to sell and they are being pragmatic about where to focus going forward.
Also trying to interpret what "Cashflow neutral" means.. I think that suggests cash received for annual in advance contracts for new sales should be sustaining working capital despite the operating loss by the end of next year. Given the tiny sales and the scale of the negative P&L... that sounds optimistic.
Perhaps a better question is what’s the purpose of a chat on a share if the only comments allowed are positive ones. Against any comparatives (show me if you disagree) wand is way over valued at todays price. Cash burning- negative growth- ongoing investigations with material potential liabilities - and 12 years of broken expectations.. if it was approaching the market for funding as a start-up it would be laughed out of sight. The sunk cost logic made the recent raise a necessary pain for existing investors but other than that what makes it investable? … so sorry but pointing out the unpleasant reality is a legitimate comment. As usual happy to be wrong and welcome any comparatives or research from market analysts which tell a different story.
There are so many great UK companies on AIM which .. but ones like this which pull in retail investors and leave them poorer for the experience are the reason the market suffers as a investment class.
So what is Wand for .. ? What it’s good at is spending investor cash ..£250m raised so far?.. to go backwards. Still at least Sheffield Wednesday gets some benefit!
It is not a stupid question though - sorry if you don’t like thinking about it - but they have been trying to sell their patented large data migration tools for over 10 years - and it hasnt exactly flown off the shelves! In fact most (all?) of the real revenue still comes from the tail of their legacy product according to annual report. So fair question - and having read their blurb .. I don’t think it is at all obvious.
And this isn’t trolling, this is just a different view ! Ignore as you wish!
Or cashing out before the discount for the fund raise …??
I’m estimating (so nothing other than public data) cash injection needed for survival beyond Christmas so RNS on raise in next 21-28 days ..??
Happy to be wrong on back of a rabbit out of hat miracle- but history isn’t on their side
Mockexchange..
The short answer is running out of cash is not a buying signal for most - Quite the reverse.
What you have here is a stock which was massively promoted relative to its actual revenues, growth rate and profitability since its debut on the AIM market back in 2012.
It has a long and innoble history of raising funds for growth, which as you can see in the numbers has failed to turn into revenue. Ian Spence, CEO of MegaBuyte, a leading analyst firm wrote this article back in 2020 before the recent events - so the writing was on the wall even then. Since then they have raised even more funds on the basis of "exciting opportunities ....
www.megabuyte.com/ceo-hub/article/5e73a06b590801000b52a2c3/wandisco-would-be-a-joke--if-it-wasn-t-so-serious Well worth a read.
For a micro-cap, it also has a very active retail investor community well represented on this board and many of whom are probably sitting on large losses after the share price hype of last year translated into the suspension this year and turned a £13 share into 50p.. Hence the relentless grasping at titbits of news, or if all else fails, the arrival of a new CEO as the big new hope. But as is suggested elsewhere, do your own research - I think you would struggle to find any tech IT stock with this low growth, ebit loss and trading track record at a valuation of even today's price. .. ! The only reason I post on this board is it frustrates me that the London AIM market is devalued by firms that destroy shareholder capital, and makes people so nervous to invest. I use the simple rule of 40 - adding annual revenue growth rate and EBIT .. anything near 40 is worth considering - and there are plenty of great companies out there!
Have fun!
Manifesto, You really don't like anyone having a different point of view do you? Playground name calling and suggestions to depart seems to be your only reaction .. You must realise it undermines what you want others to believe?
On Smallwheel's post - they have just done the sums, like others and worked out at the cash burn rate, taking out the cost of the raise, and the absence of deals bringing in real cash, means the business will need more working capital before Christmas. My prediction as you know is in October - and its going to be very tough on existing holders because there is almost nothing other than hope in the new CEO to point at - (that hasnt been promised for years). Other businesses with these revenues and ebit profile measure their value in pence and life expectancy in months.. which makes following your money very brave for institutions.
The monthly burn over revenue is huge and the multi-country operating model adds to the operating cash required to pay the bills in the right locations. Bank debt is going to be impossible with the balance sheet, so It will be fascinating to see if funds follow their money in again irrespective of the discount on share price. There will come a time when they have to take the hit.