The latest Investing Matters Podcast episode with London Stock Exchange Group's Chris Mayo has just been released. Listen here.
Flow batteries have been able to provide a lower LCOS than li-ion this was only not the case during the brief period when vanadium was expensive. The interesting metric is the LCOC - in which the li-ion batteries are dominating against gas peakers in the US or conventional generation in Europe. If the LCOC comes down as well then the tech is a no brainer
There are already requests coming in looking at next generation technology, is it flow? Is it something solid state? is it air storage?
The opportunity is there, the scalability is the factor...once production takes off then the value is virtually endless.
Li-ion output is in the order of 170 GWh annually - of which a fraction serves stationary storage. Flow batteries will have 100% of their production going to stationary storage. The opportunity is therefore in the billions, should a scalable product hit the market, which I think Avalon have in the development phase then the value is massive! Just a matter of when the product will hit the market. When it does - we'll all know about it.
What do you mean?? We have cash, we have assets, the only issue is the no investor market at the moment. Or have you completely ignored the financial impact of COVID-19??
The gold potential is very much there. Essentially if this continues, inflation builds and currency becomes worthless. Gold is the only way of hedging against that. LION/TALLY may have been early but a gold back digital currency is the way forward and I would much rather have a commodity backed currency digitised rather than going from gold --> GBP/EUR/USD --> digital currency.
Professional interest - I know the energy storage market well and am just waiting for the right time to invest. I like the company and the board post merger. Just need to wait for the alignment of company potential in a growing market. That and i'm invested elsewhere for more short term gains. I have watched many flow batteries come and go and the demise of RedT is one of them...hence my cautious approach.
Manufacturers, and also developers are being to offer flexible warranties to match the application of the system. That means if you're cycling it a lot and the DoD is high then the lifetime will be much shorter compared to 1 cycle/day at a conservative DoD. No one is guaranteeing it wont happen as accidents do happen but safety is a much higher priority.
So why is it being used as such? If you can conclude through testing that a system will not be a risk if thermal runaway occurs then you can safely install a it in a building.
It's like airbags, you want to know they are going to work when they need to and in most cases completely irrelevant for the car owner however will you ever buy a car without airbags?
Flow batteries need scale for them to compete, li-ion has the scale and they are now getting all the dots on the Is and crosses on the Ts in terms of safe installation.
Ridiculous...what on earth is this swing on about...
It's ridiculous, I'll be putting more money in this once i'm confident ODX and AVCT have run their course for the year. I doubt we'll be moving much even in Engage turn out to be a multi-billion £ company. I reckon the share price will only then flirt with 4p but the underlying value will be crazy. AC bonus when he sells Engage and GGP will be awesome. If he doesn't host a party after the AGM I'll be disappointed.
This is simply not true. The battery to be installed requires a permit to be installed. If the battery has passed UL 9540 A and other UL required testing as LG Chem and Samsung SDI were very quick to do to ensure continuation of sales. The system can be installed. The regulation was sweeping for all "battery" storage technologies so it's very relevant as similar limitations were place on VRFBs and with lead and li-ion which is ridiculous. Thankfully this is under consideration at the moment - potentially opening the market for companies like IES to get involved easier.
Whilst I can understand this getting priced against the GGP position. I'm not really sure how it's under 3p...Especially at these levels.
Fatbanker...thanks for referencing something from 2 years ago...
check out the UL standards that all batteries must adhere to before installations are allowed. Flow batteries have no issues getting these approved but the process is expensive.
They haven't last time I checked...Unless Governor Cuomo hasn't changed something recently. They just modified the standards which makes it quite difficult for lithium batteries to be installed without a bunch of safety measures.
This is true. Maybe i'm still rooted in the theory that a company has to have a reason to rise. Although sometimes buying and selling the rumour has proven to be a profitable endeavour. As a long term advocate for flow batteries, I really want them to do well. I just don't really see it yet.
Firstly, there have been 28 fires in South Korea since 2017. You can't link "battery safety" and "korean fires" together. The systems there were rushed to be installed as a result of subsidy schemes ending. Bad batches of batteries have also been cited as a potential causer and so too are the BMS systems that were meant to manage and prevent fires. Using an analogy it's like building a premium car using sub-standard parts and then driving it on a road apart from the driver is drunk then expecting the driver to stop before they hit the wall. Problems are going to occur.
In reference to the fire in Arizona, the enclosure was opened by fire-fighters who were not trained in handling battery fires and thus were burnt. Correct training and standards have now been applied across the board in USA - some potentially being overkill. As in the point above, assuming correct use and installation was followed - there is no risk of repeat fires. Systems are regularly checked to assure safe operation.
Finally, flow batteries are inherently safe, there is 0 risk of fires, from problems with equipment to problems with the electrolyte.
Conclusion - none of this has supports why the share price has doubled in the passed 2 weeks. Where are the projects? Where are the orders? If the share price is rising...what is coming? 100% cant be the Oxford hub order and I'm almost certain the German contract has been shelved in favour of lithium battery boosters.
If that is the case then really the VRB is the best solution. Paired with solar so at least 1 cycle per day and duration is key not power. Therefore VRB wins over lithium assuming the capital costs are equivalent.
@fatbanker - VRFB are inert so they are more likely to put out the fire than add to it, as for causing one, virtually impossible and it will most likely be an electrical fault.
Lithium cannot just be referred to as lithium. LFP are safer than NMC (most cars) and NCA (Teslas) but aren't as good from a technology perspective. You also have LMO, LCO, LTO and a range of others that all carry a certain risk - but as I'm said before if operated correctly; wont catch fire.
Use the example of a candle in a barn in summer. Perfectly safe if operated correctly, if you mess about with it or let it burn close to the ground (High depth of discharge) the risk is significantly higher.