Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
.. to the board Castle2012. I see from your number of posts you aren't new to equities anyway. Depending on whether you are a trader or investor (I do both) this stock currently comes under the "a bit boring" category. Fortunately there's some great people here to keep it interesting. I know very little about mining and I'm eternally grateful for the feedback I get here from a handful of genuine posters. I study the stock market and everything involved with it. Only been learning 4 years so I still have a long way to go, but equally I have learned a lot.
"A bit boring" is good, it's another phrase for "it isn't volatile". For me, it's a nice, low maintenance stock where I can hold some of my money and not really worry about it. I know some of you guys here will dispute that, but take a look at DARK today. A world class company hit by a short attack and SP dropped some 60% in the blink of an eye. I think it's fair to say that this stock is under the hedge fund managers radar :-). BUR were hit about 3 years ago, their SP £19 at the time, it's never been above £10 since, and hovers around £7 now. THG, AWE, the list goes on
Some have been here 10 years or so, I've been around 3 or 4 years so, like you, I came in at a good price. To put things into perspective I look at other charts such as EUA and the likes that are now coming to maturity. You can see there that they bumbled around the bottom for a long long time before things started to come together. So that's reason number 2 for been relaxed here.
I'm not seeing any warning signs that you get when it's going pear shaped (such as SXX). On the contrary, new investors have come in at a higher price than this so they must have some confidence in the future.
Finally, I am assured that the asset is exceedingly good (by the people here that do understand these RNS's).
I think we are all pretty much in agreement that the BOD aren't "as sharp as they could be" when it comes to managing the business, or indeed respecting the shareholders, but all in all the signs are that things are starting to come together. This year? Haven't EUA been in discussions for about 18 months or so? My personal opinion is we'll see some changes this year, but looking at other stocks I'd be surprised to see a conclusion to Toral. I could be wrong though - I often am! Good luck with all your choices
It's rather quiet here given that we've been on the leaderboards twice already this year :-). I hope everyone had a good Christmas break.
I'm glad to see Bricks didn't totally sell up. One of the originals.
I recall the saying "we do not see things as they are, we see them as we are", and so allowing for the dust to settle and given some time and space, I've looked and re looked at this from as many angles as I can. I guess I was quick to draw some conclusions (mainly suggesting they were holding the share price down). I still stand by I think LR is a great, talented, ambitious and committed guy, but not yet CEO material.
Looking at it from another angle now, it does look like it could be Toral may soon be sold and EUZ want to continue as a business, they just can't say that until the deal is done. (Fail to prepare, prepare to fail). I kind of get what they're doing and i know from personal experience you get into sticky situations where you need to say something important but can't "in law". Subsiduary of a PLC in the early 90's was loosing money but was told the board would support it if the staff agreed to a pay freeze. Unions insisted on 3% pay rise or strike action. Had to take it, silently, to the 86 staff been made redundant. You just want to scream "for FFS can't you see what's going on here" but then it becomes blackmail. Loose/ loose situation.
Given my personal experiences I do feel ashamed at some of my comments (I still don't like MC's "persona" on interviews though). Deep down I do still think this will come good.
All the best to everyone
Give the guy a chance. Richard Branson and Alan Sugar are to name but 2 who had failures in the past. It didn't stop them achieving later. So far he's done a great job in a short space of time with the JV currently announced. He should be judged by his record with NNN. Talk about risk? IAG is 19 billion euros in debt but that doesn't stop people buying shares each day. Everything in life is a risk, it's up to individuals as to how they manage that risk. Now the market is closed for Christmas. You do a great job by your employers but make sure that you do not become that man at home. Be kind to your family and friends and appreciate them while they are there.
Log in details sorted but no one can buy or sell so far today. It's frustrating but I bet the atmosphere in Bristol is a little tense this morning. I'd guess they will have to face some pretty severe consequences
Log in problems were resolved by 8.30 but no one can buy or sell now, I've been onto them this morning. 1.66 million people unable to trade. I'm equally frustrated but spare a thought for the IT manager at HL today. I think he'll be having one of those Oh **** days
First of all a huge / belated thankyou to Cjen for the meeting notes. They have certainly come across as factual and not opinionated, which is hard to do. Thank you. I have read them over and again and recent releases and everything else available. I still think LR has the best of intentions, I still feel he has great passion and belief in this asset (as do I) and I really believe he has the greatest of intentions and I believe he is doing his best. I also suspect he is as frustrated as h3ll and looses sleep at night. There are genuine people, like Laurence, that have something great, but are unable to get their message across. Then there are bul****ers who have nothing and make great waves. Unfortunately, as a Plc, the final sale /JV price will also take the SP into consideration. There's a great saying - "We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are". This is a tough one. I note absent friends and I hope you are well (as I also do the "vocal" ones here too).
No don't stop posting Shed. We need Shed and Teaye's optimism. I suppose if they are looking at another project then they must have some confidence that they aren't going to be bust in 6 months.
Everything is neutral, until you give it meaning. Everyone's input is valid.
We all stand to loose here if it goes wrong so I hope, for all our sakes that this is nothing more than poor communication. I appreciate reading everyone's views. Good luck and stay safe all.
I feel he is the public face by design. He has the persona and I suspect the passion in Toral, to pull anything off (I'm thinking such as the grants/investors etc) whereas the other one looks like he really is just in it for the money. Looking at interviews I don't think MC is very good at even faking it. Laurence could do so much better for himself but I suspect he sticks this out because he does have that passion in this project. Maybe once Toral is finalised he will go and do better for himself. Who knows it could be Mr Bird already has a seat waiting for him. I know CB has made mistakes, but so have I, his record shows more positive than negative and no one considers CB to be a crook. LR should be partnered more with someone like him, unfortunately he's getting a bad reputation here and I truly feel he's a genuine guy. I don't regret my no vote on Res 2. It will be nice to see Toral move towards the mining stage then I'll move on.
I try to be Shed and no offence taken. I'm a tad frustrated with myself on this as I never actually did a director background check. The asset looked good and Colin Bird was in when I first joined the party. I watched videos with LR and thought he came across as a decent kind of guy (and I still think that now and I still wonder if I did the right thing with the No vote on the first Resolution). I agree that the "collective board" aren't managing well and that's why LR got my no vote. I looked at the 2 non execs over the weekend and noted one with a connection to CB and the other with UFO. I shrugged off the Alien metals one as that's a good traders stock. A traders stock gets pumped up frequently, spikes often, but in the end usually ends up going bust. (certainly not EUZ!). Much as I didn't like MC's persona on the 2018 interview (he struck me as bored and irritated at "having to do this" where as LR dressed smart and embraced it with enthusiasm) I didn't background check him - til I read on here his links with KIBO. Only yesterday long term holders on the chat board were calling for an EGM to vote out LC. He has to be one of the worst directors on AIM, and who's his buddy???!!! I'm so disappointed in myself at missing that too. One way to judge a character is by the company he keeps. Another way is by his attitude. In my eyes this board is split 50/50 good and bad, and sadly the man up for re election is on the right side this time. From my vague recollection UFO have pulled a couple of stunts in pumping up the SP then issuing more shares. My only real recollection of them is a RNS that had the **** ripped out of it for saying "the stars have aligned" (long before Harry and Megan said it). In my eyes UFO is a **** stock, good to day trade but you would never sleep if you held it overnight - as is KIBO. I must admit I'm a bit gutted because I saw EUZ as something different and had I seen these connections before I wouldn't have a chunk of my pension in it. More fool me. I can see why they put LR up as the front man. I haven't looked into Bennelong yet but I'm going to. Hopefully they'll reassure me. I must admit though I was wrapped up in the surprise all of this has been and maybe how it could have been handled better. I agree with what you say though, if they do come up with an improved corporate strategy it may settle the dust. Yet, they've allowed it all to be handled so badly so far, how much hope do you hold?
Maybe if this had been released a week before we would have been equally upset at having to read it in a publication? I certainly think if it had been released late morning on the same day of the RNS it may have soothed the temperament a little. The rns was blunt and a shock (to me anyway). This feels like they're aware of the wrath and spent the last 2 weeks trying to figure out how to cool things down a little. Then some bright spark came up with this. I dont think this was wrong to do, I just think the whole thing has been badly managed. An investor presentation before the rns would maybe have been a better idea. Tell us what they're thinking and why then the rns followed by this later same day. Just my opinion anyway.
More interesting posts today Sheds in particular. What is good to see is that no one is turning on another this time. Maybe we all feel a little shell shocked and fatigued by that RNS.
A few weeks ago a poster on the ALBA board claimed he had gone to the Clogau site over the weekend and discussed his experience. It took less than 1 hour for the ALBA board to get in touch in response to that posters comments. I feel pretty sure that the BoD of EUZ are also well aware of what's been said, but they aren't trying to defend themselves in any way. I do feel a little bit sorry for LR, he's really taking the hit here and he's only 1 of 4. He seems like a nice guy and for all we know he may want to give us more information but being silenced by the rest. It's a shame it's his turn this time to be up for election, but in the absence of any respect been shown here, what other course do we have?
I did cast my votes yesterday to HL but I know that HL will collect them all in before they are submitted and that will be done at the very last minute, to give everyone a chance. So, it is possible to change my instructions. I will if I'm given good reason to and something is said to make us all a bit happier. I was having a little dig around myself this morning and I only learned today that Evan Kirby shares a boardroom table with Colin Bird.
I hear what you are saying Shed and it throws a light on some of the issues, but I can't get rid of that nagging suspicion of the share price been held down. The grant RNS came within a couple of days of the fundraising one. Surely they will have known when they would be informed of the grant decision. It feels like they wanted to rush the fundraising one out quickly before the grant one came. It would have made more sense to do it the other way around. I'm not sure it would have made everyone happier, but the grant news may have raised the SP a bit, and then they could have issued less shares for the same money or raised more money this time, needing less later. That is by no means something that if answered, would change my mind, but it's one example of strange behaviour that creates suspicion.
I truly do hope that someone somehow can put our minds at rest by the end of next week.
I understand what both Teaye and Highside are saying, but Teaye, you hit the nail on the head there "based on very little other than PI speculation". That's because we are having to speculate because the board don't feel it's their duty to keep us informed! You can look at RNS from some of the cr4pp1est companies on AIM and even the worse will say we are doing a share issue to raise "£xxx" which we will use to do "ABC" and will see us through to "end date". If there is an interest in Toral an RNS should have been issued to say an / a number of parties have expressed an interest. We know they can't say any more than that, but that would have been good enough for me to understand why they may want some cash to look at something else. On saying that though, a better RNS would have been to say they have found something and will be entering into negotiations. We all know that either news may result into nothing, it happens all the time, we understand that. But why are we been kept in the dark? Are we considered too stupid to understand this? The thing is, any sniff of possible interested parties and the share price rockets. Even if it's just a spike for a few days, although usually a spike will settle to a higher level. It's almost as if it's in their interest for the share price to remain low.
So lets be controversial. Lets say maybe someone does want to buy it but their price is say 15p per share and thats the max they will go. Well, with the SP this low 15p will seem like a very good price and the shareholders, weary of all of this, would more likely vote to agree, with the feeling that something is better than nothing. IF there is something in the background for Toral, it will be most interesting to see what the offer is on the table. If it is a low one, I think that's fair evidence that the SP has been supressed on purpose. If there isn't a rubbish offer on the table then we have just been treated with contempt by the board. I am utterly astounded at how badly the shareholders are been treated.
I hope everyone here has a safe, happy and relaxing weekend. Take care all, back to my pinot :-)
Highside the RNS specifically says the fundraising is for "refocused strategy of seeking potential additional projects". If they said they were running out of cash then I wouldn't vote against as it would be vital to keeping the company open. I don't like the "refocused strategy" bit to start. They should remain focused on the job in hand until it has reached it's conclusion. That's Toral. I also don't like "seeking potential - projects". I'll assume you have kids. So one of them says they "need" a new gizmo and it'll cost £50 but he needs you to give him the money. You pass on the £50 and when he gets backs from town you ask to see it, but he says he didn't buy one cos they'd sold out. Wouldn't you ask for your money back then? So LR here has diluted our shares and he has a pocketful of cash, and he might buy something with it - or he might not. If he doesn't won't be getting our value (money) back. Up to now we have absolutely no say in the matter. It's our money and the BoD are employees of the company an we are the owners. Utter disrespect at best. No point in waiting until 4.30. It's Friday, my 6 No votes will be lodged with HL within the next 14 minutes and I'll be on my first glass of pinot within the hour.
I'm still holding off my voting until this afternoon in desperate hope that something positive will come out soon from Europa.
And Grappa - No you can't have CB, I'm doing rather nicely with XTR thank you. Thanks for the explanation earlier as to why CB and LR parted company, I always wondered
Thanks for that summary Highside. I agree a well organised shareholder group will hopefully go a long way to holding them to account. Cjen and Bricks look to have started this and I hope it can continue and grow. I know a few of you have direct lines to the BoD and you all certainly have much more experience than I do with this stock. I hope that the shareholder group will grow and if there is anything that i can do to help make this happen then please do ask me. I do have a vested interest here too, all be it smaller than most of yours, but still an important part of my portfolio. I'll keep checking in here now to make sure I don't miss anything else.