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"Final call for boarding
This is your captain speaking. We are at 2.5p and as I said last week this is our last stop before the good ship heads for the moon."
You aren't in a position to call anyone a prick, given the set of statements you've made. As evidenced above. I'm not gloating either.
Anyway, I suppose it is 'water under the bridge' now. Massive pay-day for Nordic though, if they bought the notes at anything like the discount they were trading for ....
> I said from day one it was a binary bet
"Final call for boarding
This is your captain speaking. We are at 2.5p and as I said last week this is our last stop before the good ship heads for the moon."
No, Kheldar, whilst some were urging caution, you were coming up with laughable ****e...
"The administrators are as bad as the Russian crooks, "
I think that is wrong (I'd remove that comment to be honest); my best guess is that their hands are forced to a degree. The Russian subsidiaries are guarantors of the debt of the PLC, in theory UMMC could take action in Russian courts, they may have a reasonable case of forcing their sale there, so I suspect Administrators are left with a choice of: a small percentage of something vs 100% of nothing. It may be worth asking the administrators directly, but suspect legal action in Russia may have left the company with even less, that's guesswork on my part.
13% inflation is criminal, its another tax.
Interest rates should be about 4-6% by now.
Government/BoE doing so to inflate debt away and keep certain assets inflated. I don't think it will work, as they'll import inflation. 50bp rise and GBP is down tells you where trying to inflate debt away will get this government.
IMO, they need to ramp up rates and scrap NI tax hike/Corp. tax etc.
As for sanctions, those will remain until the end of the war and likely beyond, I don't see that happening anytime soon, but I've no idea on what is happening in Ukraine or what the discussions are - just what I read in the press.
Also, they don't give an exact value, so there may be some distribution to shareholders. Maybe ask the Auditor what the actual value is , the quotes below all say 'in excess of' ... which could mean anything really...
"Completely smell a rat, the price just happens to be exactly enough to pay off creditors,"
UMMC probably worked out what the debt would be and made the offer, I don't think that is anything underhand by the auditors. Rather, UMMC know that there may not be any foreign bidders and it looked like a two horse race.
Since the likely bought the debt from Gazprom for deep discount (and they themselves are therefore creditors) ... it clearly put them in a position where they can offer money for the other creditors to walk away.
The issue being, could the Auditors have kept the business going, sold elsewhere. Given the location - I don't think so. And, people are hoping if they think an Indian or Chinese business would buy POG - they wouldn't, it would be Russian.
If you are going to argue against the Auditors decision, I suppose it would have to be as a going-concern...
Maybe Administrators can get something out of it for the shareholders.
Will be a few people to pay... but it looks like a break-up/sale of the company, rather than on-going concern.
Lawrence,
Curious letter, some of the points I think are self evident. If I were you: company is PLC, they have to act in best interests, why not ask them if waiving bankruptcy protection was in the best interests of the company?
Honestly, think that is one angle at least worth understanding/exploring.
I'd maybe sit back a bit and chose the questions you send them carefully.
Here is my best guess, those questions are largely, IMO, self evident along the lines of:
1) Is your brief to try and save Petropavlovsk Plc or essentially wind it down?
Try to restructure, if not, get best return for creditors.
2) If it's to save POG have you petitioned the UK Gov for waivers on the sale of gold and the servicing of debt
No, that would be likely fruitless.
3) If the UK Gov at this late stage granted waivers of debt serving and gold sales would that save the company
A hypothetical, unlikely at this stage.
4) Are you actually running the company and overseeing the mining and processing of the oxidization of gold.
Overseeing the company PLC, not day to day operations in Russia.
5) Is the mining and processing oxidization process still active
Yes
6) If all is lost will the personal investors get anything
No
I agree with sentiment that writing to MP, journalists etc. is likely to be a complete waste of time.
I would maybe ask the administrator, their opinion of the bankruptcy protection being waived for the Russian subsidiaries. I'd be curious as to the exact reason why that happened. Was it reasonable to expect the company to waive
bankruptcy protection in Russia? etc. etc.
You sometimes see (in the US) cases brought (good or bad) by shareholders as this obviously ups them in the priority of getting paid out/off etc.
I'm not 100% sure about the 1 in 20 'collapse', but certainly for listed companies, falling out of an index:
"The average lifespan of a U.S. S&P 500 company has fallen by 80% in the last 80 years (from 67 to 15 years), and 76% of UK FTSE 100 companies have disappeared in the last 30 years."
Which is sobering, and probably a good advertisement for index investing (yes, you will invest in things that drop out etc.) and/or investing in blue chip companies with stop-losses.
I don't think its a given that any asset class 'gold is guaranteed to move up in price. '. Gold may be compelling asset to invest in, but that as a statement is clearly nonsense.
Gold - people will hold it as a hedge against central banks debasing the currency. But ... if we get back to anything like normal interest rates (of course it could be argued that is some way off), then why hold gold, if you are getting 4-5-6%. So, gold probably is a sound investment - maybe holding the underlying either an ETF backed by physical asset (or if you are tin foil hat wearer - buying the physical gold itself).
>That's why it reached 41p
The fact that the SP reached that doesn't alter the premise really nobody should invest everything in a single stock, that is, literally asking for trouble. Companies can get into issues for all sorts of reasons.
That said, re: POG, one of the Opus profiles, working on POG, says:
"... works in the SME arena, to provide solutions to all stakeholders in financially distressed situations, whilst recognising that formal insolvency is not always appropriate."
That to me suggests that probably having Opus take the reins isn't such a bad thing to say a month or so ago. They seem to have avoided a pre-pack, so , I'd be hopeful they can do something.
If you visit the Petropavlovsk website, the administrators have a pop-up, that has a timeline potentially going out to 24 months. I'd say that if they do have the time, the longer it takes maybe for the better.
I agree with all the recent comments, I guess lots of disagreement around share-price etc. But I do hope everyone gets back at least something from their investment.
The email address someone was looking for: petroshareholders@opusllp.com
Firstly, there hasn't been some immediate pre-pack admin, and if the admin put out a note about possible restructuring etc. that can only be a good thing, though the whole process will take time.
"I mean till yesterday they was some valuation."
POG is no longer a ticker, so there is no live quote. Probably they have a rule:
share suspended = show last price.
share delisted = show zero.
Different brokers may vary or may update accounts at different times etc.
"All I'm saying this "...FO for a while over the debt, simple." scenario hopes unfortunately won't work as it is already happening."
In all seriousness, Administration would be a good thing for shareholders, as they may take an independent look and decide some prepack sell off isn't in stakeholders interests. And slow things down quite a bit. They have 12 months and could (I think) apply to extend that.
The only issue will be if Russian subsidiaries are guarantors of the debt of the parent company. That -may- (may not) allow UMMC to proceed with legal issues in Russia, which could be quicker, more favourable for them.
LewisMJ<< What are you doing here? If no interest...
Just a reminder:
1. This is a public board, you don't control it.
2. You don't have any say in its policies.
3. You don't have a say in who may or may not post to it.
4. You don't have a say in censoring views.
I've never told anyone to stop posting, there are differing views. You don't like some views.
I pointed out one fact, that GPB had already sold the debt.
"Pretty sure the judge will see gazproms effort to transfer the debt, sadly that won’t wash"
They did it months ago, if you read the RNS. It has already happened.
Also, selling debt perfectly legal. Also did POG a favour by doing so and waiving the rights to be the sole buyer of gold.
"Hopefully, you will take this the right way and **** off."
Lol, some facts for you:
1. This is a public board, you don't control it.
2. You don't have any say in its policies.
3. You don't have a say in who may or may not post to it.
4. You don't have a say in censoring views.
So starting from that point where you are in no position to demand anything as you have no authority, power etc...
1. I didn't say 'I told you so'. I responded to a hypocritical comment, where someone started blaming in the government.
2. The real cretins aren't those that took a gamble, plenty on here say "this is a binary bet" and good on them:
3. No, the real cretins are the rampers.
Why Kheldar, wasn't this you?
"Final call for boarding
This is your captain speaking. We are at 2.5p and as I said last week this is our last stop before the good ship heads for the moon."
It is the idiots, who didn't think or were just ramping trying to get others to validate their views or someone get the SP up to protect themselves - those are the cretins.
"I do find it amazing why there are people here who aren’t shareholders. "
Why are there such obvious rampers too - with equally obvious bull****. For what? Want greater fools to come along and rescue their position or something?
>Destroyed UK company,
Affected a listed UK company, the largest shareholders by far are Russian.
BP shareholders and others were affected too, so too a host of other companies.
Sanctions are something that can and do affect companies, investors should risk manage accordingly.
Long term holders 'fear of missing out' (a polite way of saying 'greed' got the better of most - stop losses, wanting to make millions those are the two main reasons why people lost huge amounts).
Some too a punt (and yes, the Auditor may get some return back) but at least the people taking a punt were/are aware of the risks and don't blame the government or anyone else.