Member Info for LD1973

Myself and others have touched on this, but would really welcome a discussion with people who really know the score.

My understanding is all shorts will have to close their positions before ingenuity goes private or at the very least they'd only get 1/6th if they are forced to convert them into remain shares. That would be the equivalent of 8.33p a share.

If a short has 1,000,000 shares, they are currently worth circa £500,000. If they have to partake in the split, they'll only be worth circa £83,000. MW has 13,000,000 short so that would be almost £5,500,000 shortfall. Have I got this right?

Given everything that's gone on, I would not be at all surprised to see an offer come in for the whole or just ingenuity. Even if the offer for ingenuity is £500m, there's no way the board could not recommend that over the current deal. This whole lease liability is smoke and mirrors. Yes they have to account for them, but without the warehouses, ingenuity wouldn't be a business! I know we all wanted this split but I don't think we're being treated fairly.

Am waiting for HL to let me know where I stand regarding my holding in my ISA. They let me partake in the placing, through my ISA so one would think I will still be able to hold any shares in new co in my ISA. Will update when I hear back

Plaza, that's my thoughts on it, especially as shares won't be able to be traded in the new co. This could make it tricky for the shorts because anyone who's rolling into new co won't be selling and anyone not rolling is waiting for the big re rate in remain co. Either way not many people are going to be selling?

@yes, that’s what I’m thinking. If we get diluted, they get diluted as well

On the question of further dilution, I know it's a serious concern, but I don't know enough about it. How can they dilute the small investors without diluting themselves at the same time?

Really? If they felt that way, they’d just dump the stock. There’s up on the trade at 39p or whatever it was

I know - 2 of my biggest holdings - sainsbury's and THG. Both on Bloomberg TV this morning, all for the wrong reasons - Not a good day haha! They don't need to sell in order to invest here though.

Just Balderton & QIA there's 14/15% isn't there?

Sure - on paper it works out like that but this is assuming the ingenuity valuation is correct, which (most of us believe) is not.

I don't think the new co will stay private for more than 5 years. As people have said, THG needs to perform well to make sure new co does well. MM might be happy not seeing any return on his investment, but not sure all his investors feel the same. If he wants a dividend, he'll have to pay all shareholders a dividend. They're making it so unattractive with circa 6/1 split on shares, it's really not worth taking shares out of new co. Would be nice if apollo or someone else put a spanner in the works next week! If they do still like ingenuity, they'll be a bit p*ssed off MM has been able to get it for next to nothing. This time as well MM wouldn't be able to argue the reason not to do the deal was because he didn't want rest of group saddled with a load of debt!

Not sure what shorts do if they haven't bought back before it demerges? People who have loaned their shares will need to make decision. Not all will choose same option plus if some choose ingenuity roll, what happens then because you won't be able to trade that share

I have to say, his explanation did make a bit of sense to me, which made me a little happier. You do tend to forget, this is a global company and a bit like a tanker, takes a bit of time to slow down, stop, turn around and get going again. Still not that happy with so much debt being applied to plc, but if one stays invested in ingenuity, we should do better when that gets floated again.

If any PE were seriously interested in ingenuity, I wouldn’t be surprised if a bid came in for the whole group sharpish. Once it’s gone private, it’s gone until it comes back again and at what price then?

If everyone stays invested, it’s easy, everyone just gets their allocation of shares in both companies.

Say 50% don’t want anything to do with ingenuity and want their remain shares to be increased as compensation for not being invoked in ingenuity going forward. Who pays / compensates the remain company for the dilution? Surely ingenuity would have to compensate the remain company?

If everyone decided not to take their ingenuity allocation and wanted more remain shares (N&B) what compensation mechanism is there between the 2 companies? If there isn’t anything, ingenuity would basically just get shares cancelled and remain would have more dilution.

Has this deal actually been structured & valued this way to force people to stay invested. If they want to see true value from ingenuity?

The debt doesn't make sense to me but everyone's been looking for a way to be able to value beauty & nutrition correctly. This deal, whilst not perfect gives us that chance, especially at a time when applied nutrition is being valued @ £500m for less than £100m turnover.

Is MM perfect? No of course not, but he's now doing what everyone wanted. If people weren't allowed to stay invested in ingenuity then I would have a problem, especially with the structure. This is your best chance of getting your head above water (if we believe you still have shares) and still you want to scream like a baby (again)

Haha, 'to' becomes 'too' with predictive text? Give your head a wobble!

It's 'to' not 'too' you imbecile.

You don't have any shares in this anyway!

Problem is, I hold my THG shares in an ISA, so not sure I'm going to be able to keep ingenuity? Mind you , HL let me partake in the placing earlier, so if I wasn't allowed to be involved, surely it would have stopped me?