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For quite a while, HSBC paid 51 cents, or US$0.51 a year.
That is 38p a year, at current exchange rate.
9.0% = 38p / £4.20
If history repeats itself, it will climb up to ~£8.
I chickened out at ~£6 last time.
Bought in at £4.25 in 2016.
Like Nigella says, Cook, Repeat, Eat.
"I think standard chartered shareholders will do even better than hsbc shareholders."
In 2016, I bought some Standard Chartered, I think it went up more than HSBC, but I thought HSBC is more diversified,
and so a good long term holding. I think I sold the STAN as soon as I made a quickie profit.
The ideal setup is if I bought 20,000 shares of HSBA at £2.83 in September 2020 for £56,600,
then sell 10,000 shares at £6, for £60,000. There now remains 10,000 shares, worth £60,000 ,
which qualifies for the HSBC Premier account.
Take the £60,000 proceed of the sale, and it's now a no-money-down affair.
Free money!
I managed to set up a no-money-down Buy-To-Let configuration, and rather miss it.
The house was worth £180k, so I got a mortgage for £100k, with £80k down.
On re-mortgage, some years later, the house was worth £350k, so I could get a mortgage for £180k,
because the tax man will only allow tax deduction for mortgage interest up to the original purchase price of £180k.
This means I got the £80k deposit back, and it was now no-money-down.
The rent paid the interest and various costs, and was generating an income stream.
The really hilarious thing was, the Sub-Prime crisis brought down the BOE interest to 0.5%, and my BTL deal was BOE+1.75%, after the fixed rate finished, so the income stream shot up!
Alas, the golden years of full interest tax relief was coming to an end, so I had to sell that house.
Didn't have the cash in September to buy at £2.86, but I did pick some HSBA up at £3.39 recently.
So, I can have a MINI HSBC Money Tree, at least.
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/HSBA/hsbc-holdings-plc/company-page
Choose Max in the Drop Down Menu on the right.
It gives you a chart that goes from 1995 to 2020.
HSBA goes up to about £8 historically.
I managed to grab some at £4.25 , in 2016, sold out around £6.
There is an interesting little perpetual money making machine that I will try to set up.
You get a HSBC Premier account if you have £50k worth of business with HSBC.
The InvestDirect dealing account is pretty cheap, 4 x £10.50 quarterly = £42 Fee a Year to have the dealing account.
The S&S ISA is free of charge, since you already pay for the dealing account.
Once you bought the shares, for the £10.50 per deal, plus stamp duty, they will keep the shares for free, no custodian fees.
There no charge for paying out the dividend.
The idea is to have £50k+ worth of HSBA shares, inside an S&S ISA.
Obviously, the dividend is tax free.
If it's paying 5% dividend, that is £2,500 on £50k.
This is ample to pay off the £42 quarterly Fee.
At steady state, you now have about £2,458 a year income, tax free.
Ideally. you buy HSBA shares inside the S&S ISA, so you don't have to do bed and ISA, but you can't get £50k into an ISA in one go, unless you transfer in. Not that it matters, you get £2,000 Dividend Allowance a year. So, in year one, £20k is inside the ISA, with £30k outside. From the £30k holding, the £1,500 dividend is less than the £2,000 Dividend Allowance, so it's tax free anyway.
The fun thing is, once set up, it's HSBC paying you, FOREVER.
The growth engine video is just what you would expect, we will become TESCO and nail big concessions from everybody.
I have shares in TEN as well, so I don't want to bash it.
I had two months in China, thirty years ago, for £2,000 , not including getting there.
I had to work out you apply the visas in reverse, i.e. China first, then Mongolia, then Russia, then Poland.
They want to know they are not going to be stuck with you loitering, so they want to see that you have a ticket to leave as well. This means I am perfectly able to organise my own trips, without a "concierge".
Having said that, I witnessed a highly paid pigeon who did not understand that an electrically heated hot water cylinder has TWO heating elements. The bottom one died, which does happen, and can be swapped out by any plumber. He called Pimlico Plumbing, who charged him £500. All he had to do was to switch on the top element, to get hot water, and wait for a normal plumber, who will charge £200 tops.
I am therefore quite optimistic that Ten will have plenty of time poor "wealthy" people who think they provide a useful service. Generally, the HSBC Jade perks are worth around £100. Ten Private Membership is £29 per month, or £348 a year. If HSBC hands over rich muppets to Ten to exploit, AND pay £348 to TEN, HSBC deserves to go bankrupt.
I tried the online portal, before COVID-19, and the plane tickets are not cheaper. The available airline partners are limited as well. It just means other airlines don't want to play ball, and pay kickbacks.
I can just imagine the sales call to restaurants.
"TEN diners are not cheapskates who order Two course specials for £25, and don't order drinks. They are Shirley Bassey BIG SPENDERs"
"One glass of complimentary champagne will be amply rewarded by a big dinner bill."
No restaurant is going to keep one table for Ten, another for Quintessentially, and another for the concierge at the Dorchester. Forty years ago, the drill for theatres was they always keep a few seats unsold, until the last minute, in case there are last minute VIPs. This is why you queued for "Returned Tickets". They also happened to be the better seats. The maître d' of a restaurant makes a judgement call, depending on his experience. If TEN keeps sending dregs who order the house red, he will keep the table for some other concierge.
At £348 a year, it's riff raff time.
"You clearly know nothing about Ten mate ??"
I'm all ears. Let's have some real low down.
Ten Lifestyle Group is like the EasyJet of concierge services.
You get free concierge service with HSBC Jade, which used to be with
https://www.quintessentially.com/
The Call centre girl sounded posh.
HSBC Jade switched to Ten Lifestyle Management Limited around 2018.
https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/jade-concierge.pdf
The Call Centre staff sounded like a New Zealand backpacker.
Despite all the talk of investing in IT, the customer experience is distinctly more TESCO than Harrods.
It is pretty obvious that TEN costs less than Quintessentially to HSBC Jade.
Apparently, TEN provides concierge service for COUTTS, too
https://concierge.coutts.com/product/coutts/homepage
The banks just want to reduce the cost of a FREE perk.
I have never had the Amex Centurion, which charges
Initiation Fee: $10,000.
Annual Fee: $5,000.
Maybe somebody who has the Centurion can tell us what a real concierge service is like.
At Smith & Wollensky
https://www.smithandwollensky.co.uk/
you get a free glass of champagne if you book through Ten.
Even if there are reserved tables, you are still competing with other concierge companies, as well as other members of Ten. Oh, and the real concierges in 5 star hotels.
Instead of one nice couple needing a table, there are now a thousand.
How is that nice IT computer going to help?
In terms of Sold Out shows, forget it.
For one show, they told me the theatre releases held back tickets on a Monday for that week.
I waited for six weeks, and not even an e-mail.
There is a phone App and an online portal
https://www.jade.hsbc.com/user/login
You can book things DIY.
More than likely, Ten will acquire more contracts, because they are cheaper.
This means it will have a bunch of wealthy people on its books.
With that, they should be able to leverage discounts, and get kickbacks, and make money that way.
Booking.com, OpenTable, Ticketmaster do the same sort of thing, of course.
Ten is more upmarket, and you can get through in fairly short waiting time by phone.
I suspect the contract they have with the banks is commission based.
I don't see HSBC handing rich customers over, just so Ten can make all the money.
E.g. HSBC pays Ten £100 per head, but gets 20% of gross profit in kickback from Ten, when the member books flights, restaurants, etc. I can see Russian businessmen eating at Claridge's , food is £500, but the drinks make it £20,000, including tips (~12.5%, Discretionary, say). If Ten gets 5% of the bill, that is £1,000 . HSBC (or Coutts) gets £200 at 20%. All this is just my speculation.
I have a few shares of TENG, just in case they succeed in fleecing the capitalist sheep/pigs.
"Just wish to add yesterday I had a fat finger incident and sold 1.660380M shares at around 11.44 at 1.56p the MM have not showed this now for 24 hours is this legal?"
It may not necessarily be dodgy dealing.
I have had big orders broken up into little ones.
This does mean that the individual trades may not be at the same price.
The trade statement just gives an average price.
I have also had incomplete orders, where they only manage to scrape together so many shares.
This is particularly true when you set a Limit Order.
Very annoying when you end up with NOT a whole number.
Selling 1,660,380 and buying 1,000,000 back next day?
30 Day Rule for CGT calculations?
I hate doing stuff like this.
Outside an S&S ISA, it's just masochism.
Or Tracker funds HAVE TO BUY.
Subconsciously, we all think:
"Active fund managers are spineless parasites, and their funds are closet trackers."
"You can't go wrong buying passive Trackers"
If you compare FTSE-100 and BT.A, for those five days, you will see there is no spoon.
I was in a ski chalet, maybe twenty years ago.
Somebody mentioned that Lloyds was paying 7% dividend for years.
It was a three star half board deal, and I always booked last minute at extreme discount,
so it wasn't a gathering of stock market gurus.
Still, on 7% dividend, he would have got most of his money back, by the time the government bailed Lloyds out.
On the other hand, you probably got 5% fixed rate in an ISA, with no risk, in those days.
Deposit on cash is now dead. I am not even bothering with these Regular Savers.
At 5%, it was worth doing, not now.
The stock market is the place to go for some meaningful returns now.
Unlike my lecturer, who was saying you should not base your investment decisions on tax regime,
I am all about tax saving. In particular, you have extra tax allowances for interest, dividend and capital gains, on top of the personal allowance.
Interest
=======
Bizarrely, you can get £5,000 in interest, tax free, if your "income" is low.
If you don't work, e.g. you are retired, or got a good settlement for personal injury, you were in a good place when interest rate was 5%. Put £100k down in a 5 year fixed rate, and get the interest tax free.
Now, you need ~£1m to get £5,000 a year, so nuts to that.
The bog standard £1,000 Savings Allowance is all you need now, to mop up any stray interest, like Santander 123 (0.6% up to £20k)
This does mean that you need to take that £100k, and put it to work.
Dividend Allowance
=================
£2,000 tax free.
Tax band Tax rate on dividends over the allowance
Basic rate 7.5%
Higher rate 32.5%
Additional rate 38.1%
Let us say you get 5% dividend, on £100k that is £5,000, so the first £2,000 is tax free,
then you pay 7.5% (versus 20% income tax) on £3,000. £225 in tax.
The problem is how to make use of the £12,300 tax free in a relatively risk free way.
Bed and breakfast is pointless, as the 30 day rule nullifies it.
There is an interesting work around though. Vanguard has some retirement funds that are virtually the same.
So, you sell Target Retirement 2035 Fund today, and buy Target Retirement 2040 Fund tomorrow.
The proposition is a bit BrightHouse like, which I disapprove of.
If you have the money yourself, it is cheaper in the longer term to upgrade the lights yourself,
just like it's cheaper if you buy a washing machine outright, versus renting it from BrightHouse.
For a profitable private business, however, it can make sense to PAY EAAS as a business expense, which you then offset against profit to pay less tax. This is why you lease cars and vans, instead of buying them. In fact, a company could deliberately sell its land, just so it rents it back, so the rent is tax deductible. It also improves the financial ratios, because it LOOKS as if you are generating higher returns on less assets, because you don't own the land, or factory, so they don't appear on your balance sheet. Lease back, or off balance sheet financing, is misleading, so you are supposed to redo the numbers, if you want to compare with another company that doesn't do leaseback.
As a public institution, that does not pay tax, it seems such considerations are not relevant.
Sadly, the headmaster has so little cash, that upgrading the lights could mean letting go of some teachers;
and then they set targets for carbon reduction and give you nothing to pay for the work.
So, like a poor single mother who really wants a washing machine, she ends up going with BrightHouse.
As an investor, you can see it as a carbon reducing, ethical, green investment, or an evil pay day loan company that exploits budget squeezed institutions.
The main concern I have is they sell off the income stream, so the shareholders never see any dividend.
Yes, still alive.
Lost a lot more money on BT.A, so AXM is not the main thing that makes me want to jump out of a window.
Just as well I live in a bungalow.
Talking about business models.
KILLME.com
Motor neuron disease getting you down? Got cancer, but they can't operate because of COVID-19? Can't stand the pain any more? don't want to get your family into trouble by assisting your exit with dignity? Call 0800 KILLME, and we will send a COVID-19 infected to your door. It's a Kissagram, so there are no attempted murder charges.
There is an interesting insurance angle on this, so if you want to settle in cash, we don't mind.
It's the kind of business to list on AIM. 60 million potential customers. ;)
A number of cancelled trades, matching the sells.
If you think EAAS will go from 9p to 19p, or 90p, what would you do?
1. Put a deposit down on a JLR Defender?
2. Change your Brazilian mistress for a Russian one?
3. Move your EAAS shares into an S&S ISA?
I see three cancelled trades, so somebody had EAAS shares in his mother's name, his own name, and his wife's name.
I believe this is called bed and ISA.
Sadly, bed and breakfast no longer works, since HMRC introduced the 30 day rule.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bed-and-breakfast-deal.asp
They give you the CGT allowance with the left hand, then make you jump through hoops with the right hand to use it.
All those years I had no money to get any CGT, they allowed B&B.
As soon I have enough money to have Capital Gains, they deny me the pleasure of avoiding CGT.
It's a personal vendetta against me.
"Now can someone explain to my layman brain in simple terms why pension deficit shot up x4 since March? Did they find some dirt under the carpet?"
International Accounting Standards (IASs) dictates that you have to work out your figure the same way as everybody else.
If Donald Trump was to give you a figure, you know he did not do it by IAS (=IFRS) rules.
He will say the pension deficit is peanuts, because that's what you want to hear.
With pensions, you want to know how quickly the pensioners die off, or mortality rate.
In normal times, you look at the ages of the already retired, and future annuitants,
and come up with a cashflow plan. Note that COVID-19 tends to accelerate the deaths.
A good thing if you want to reduce the pension deficit.
Now, is £100 in 40 years time the same as £100 today?
If your cashflow plan says you have to pay out £1m in 40 years time,
it's not a liability of £1m today. They have to consider the compound interest effect over the 40 years.
The discount rate works by assuming you can get 5% (say) return. so if you invest £142,046 today,
you will have £1m in year 40 to pay out to all those malingering pesky pensioners.
You then work out what the pay out in year 39, 38, 37, etc, and the sum of their present day values can be considered the pension liability.
A good conscientious accountant doesn't do all this and more because he wants to do a thorough job,
but because if he doesn't he will lose his professional accreditation.
I assume IAS conformance is a lot more annoying than the two paragraphs above.
For example, you have to pay all the salaries of the pension department, which also has rent, computers etc.
I also find it amazing how accountants don't gnaw their own feet off, and jump out of the nearest window.
Ah, so that's why those high rise buildings have glass walls you can't open.
"I hope it does go to £1. Frustrating that would give me enough to retire but my holding is in my SIPP which I can't access for 15 years."
As I have other income streams, annuity income from pensions will likely attract 40% income tax. Ideally, you want to have the SAR shares in a S&S ISA. If not, capital gains tax is 10% or 20% (higher rate), which is far more preferable to 40% income tax. If you end up in 45% tax band, even more pain.
During the Thatcher years, I was really keen on building up my pension, but the numbers mean that, in retirement, I end up paying 40% tax when taking it out. the tax rebate was only 33%, 40 years ago!
Don't forget, when you retire, the pesky state pension will use up half your tax free personal allowance. With the pension Life Time Allowance, you could even pay 55% on the lump sum, if you exceed the LTA.
I have 1 million shares of SAR. If it did go to £1 a share, I definitely DO NOT want it in a SIPP.
Were they moonlighting as a Marlene Dietrich drag act? She paints her eyebrows on.
I was not in hardware. I worked on X-25 Layer 3 software of the OSI 7 Layer .
CCITT (now ITU) Red Book was my bible.
Link Layer chat up line:
Question : SABM
Answer: UA
If you can find a girl who replies UA at a party, you have made an ABM connection.
On the other hand, if a girl knows the Link Layer handshake protocol that well, would you really want to date her?
Hence I theorise the inevitable extinction of Link Layer engineers.
Had a chat with a BBC engineer, maybe 30 years ago. They used microwave links, for terrestrial relay purposes. As you might expect, pigeons would hang out nearby. They do find dead pigeons, and the engineers are pretty careful about getting their bits roasted.
People just don't know about the dangerous stuff, because they are high up on TV towers, and on a hill, with a fence around them, and a sign that says "Danger, risk of Death"