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Second time I've lost money on this company, first time it was my great gran's inheritance! This time my own $$! When will I learn? 2006 now seems a long time ago when IEH were carrying out a reverse merger of Dickie Walker Marine on the NASDAQ. That went to **** and I lost all my money, now 11 years on they're at it again! The one thing I don't understand is how on earth this company is still trading on AIM? How is it not suspended?
Wastedofyou: I stand by what I said in Jan 2013: "As I posted earlier, I don't think they'll take over, it doesn't make any sense. ORA are at: 120,283,638 IP2IPO are at something similar: 121,000,000 That means there are: 174,000,000 still to buy. According to Spreadbet they would have to pay 15p per share or a further £26,100,000; now call me cynical, but that would be ridiculous! It would have made far more sense to come in and buy the whole company at the time of the offer, for much much less. For me it is strange that IP2IPO came in at 29% but ORA at ~25%. Could it be that the intention was to come in at 25% and then hoover up shares until they're at the 30% to push up the price? Otherwise why not come in straight away at 29% like IP2IPO did? Looking at the last annual statement from ORA it states: "At 31 July 2012, ORA had 14 portfolio businesses of which 12 are quoted on AIM and the remaining 2 are unquoted. The carrying value of strategic portfolio business holdings at 31 July 2012 was £76.2 million, of which £73.2 million was represented by quoted holdings and £3.0 million by unquoted holdings." The entire 'carrying value' of the CO's holdings is only £73.2million..... paying £20 million+ for Ceres is simply a non starter! G"
Thinking about your comment: "Mention mCHP to the average Joe and he doesn't know what you are talking about" I think that's fair comment but another thing to note is that fuel cell's are soon to be everywhere, particularly in the automotive industry, this will drive consumer acceptance as they become increasingly aware of what a fuel cell is and what it means. If the average Joe has spent 15K on a new fuel cell car they are going to be very open, if not pro-actively interested in a fuel cell boiler. Convincing myself even more ;) M
I'm by no means talking down flow! I think their model is great and I sincerely hope they're successful! Anything that pushes against the giants is good in my book! I'm just so sold on the H economy, no doubt live to regret it! M
No need to be sorry, it's my money :) To a point you're right, I made a decision > 5 years ago that I would pick UK listed H companies to invest in as I believe it is the technology of the future. There weren't many of them about, CWR, CFU, ITM, PPS, AFC, ACTA - I'm in the first 4 with CWR, ITM & PPS making up the bulk of my holdings. While Flow's ORC is interesting it still relies on burning gas to produce average daily heat requirements & electricity - the Ceres unit does not. Whichever way I look at it I just cannot see how this is the future, even in the (relatively short to medium term.). There's also the point of IP, the fuel cell IP owned I assume is not limited to just mCHP but can be applied across a host of numerous different applications - hence the new direction taken by management. So I might not know all the detail but my reasoning is sound & my portfolio doesn't look too bad either ;) M
I should really read BEFORE I post! So they use an ORC system! Sounds interesting but it doesn't change my view. I'm still 100% sold on Fuel Cells being the future and that's why I'm in Ceres and others put simply It's their tech that attracts me.
correct me if I'm wrong but Flowgroup are pushing a Stirling boiler? With Ceres you're getting all the fuel tech, fuel cells are the future, stirling boilers are stop gap IMHO. With flow you're investing in a service, not a product. With Ceres you're investing in the intellectual property of tomorrows technologies. Stick with it and keep buyin!
you need to think longer term than 12 months, the H economy is around the corner but the corner may be 5 years long! Be patient!
You clearly know more about heating homes than I do :) Found this: http://www.marcogaz.org/downloads/Session2/2%20-%20CERES_A%20wall%20mountable%20integrated%20fuel%20cell%20mCHP_Flint.pdf On page 9 it confirms your thoughts. I've been in Ceres a long time and never knew the unit had an inbuilt condensing boiler! Not that it matters much any more as they're no longer on that path but hey - good to be educated! :) Are you in any of these H companies yourself? It's been a bumpy ride with Ceres but they're going good for me now! :) Thanks for the patent stuff, will have a look.
Hey, 100% the CFU and CWR units do not burn gas to produce hot water, the excess heat from the electricity generation is used to produce the hot water. The presentation below states the CFU unit is capable of 200ltr a day, the average UK home consumes around 120. The CFU unit isn't designed to run central heating but the original ceres unit was, see: http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/News/NewsFeedItem.aspx?id=117392193647882 The company I mentioned ITM, who are investigating injecting Hydrogen in to the grid make the electrolysers you describe. So I wholesale agree with the points you raise. The vast majority of the Hydrogen today is generated using fossil fuel but in 10 to 15 years it wont. ITM have a working product that takes in a renewable power source and water and outputs hydrogen. This is the future whether generated locally close to the point of use or injected on mass in to the grid. I'm interested in the methane patent you mention, which company has that? Thanks Matt.
Well it seems I was very wrong! Having read the presentation and re-read the site it seems the BlueGen is for single home deployments, quite surprising given its size. So your concerns are well founded! That said even given its size I think it's worth a high risk punt. It's a fair point re the efficiency but there are a few key points, a stirling boiler burns the gas resulting in CO2, a fuel cell boiler does not, zero CO2. It gets even more interesting with companies like ITM who are investigating injecting Hydrgen in to the gas network. You could have completely clean, renewabally generated Hydrogen supplied direct to your fuel cell boiler. Pracically no CO2. Likewise the H could be generated locally from a turbine or solar panel on your home totally free - at this point the efficiency of the units is less of a priority. One thing for sure burning fossil fuels is not the future, in 10 - 15 years we won't be doing it. I firmly believe fuel cells are the answer, so convinced I am that every spare penny is invested in H one way or the other. (and it's serving me well so far :p )
Hey Carlton, I believe CFU's product set is designed to be used on a housing scheme, shared by multiple properties, flats for example. Businesses are also a potential I imagine. I was skeptical when I first learned about the product and opted for Ceres Power instead as their offering is a standard sized boiler. However, since the recent plummet I've dived in. The market for such a sized product is there - businesses in particular. So I'm in Ceres and I'm in here too! Gunna average down at the new low also :) M
Lol multi-bagger n. an unattractive woman who men would say needs more than three bags to cover her face. I've actually slept with a few two baggers and three baggers but because these girls were wearing Frederick's of Hollywood lingirie, I've even slept with a multi-bagger once
For me all fuel cell stocks are long termers, the next 5 years is going to be make or break for the firms involved in the H economy and CWR are no different. I like their tech and I like the new management approach. I'm still really positive about this stock so am definitely holding firm! Same goes for: ITM, PPS, CFU, AFC & ACTA - all have great potential.