The latest Investing Matters Podcast episode featuring Jeremy Skillington, CEO of Poolbeg Pharma has just been released. Listen here.
I saw this and thought of you all. I have no view on it.
https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/national/dpdc-to-install-14m-smart-pre-payment-meters-1600858180
Not sure if this posted here yet which is in sector news today:
https://www.saurenergy.com/solar-energy-news/ministry-of-power-to-set-up-rs-2000-cr-jv-to-ease-smart-meter-rollouts
https://theenergyst.com/energypro-seeks-2m-to-open-india-energy-market-to-uk-firms/ - sure to stimulate some discussion. Best wishes all.
I do believe in mesh - I've been involved in it at scale and it has unqiue benefits (the post weather event reforming aspect is good for example). But it needs a utility/governent who structures a roll-out so that the network builds organically in the right way. The need for a concentractor/hub to sit between the devices wirth the cards/NICs in and the backhaul meanu can't have a disparate approach to the deployment. For a period mesh was promoted globally as the primary comms carrier then it later started to become the secondary one behind an easier primary. There's no reason why it shouldn't be a main primary network as it is in many USA places, but that was all rolled-out a while ago and now wouldn't be done that way today in all likelihood. That's because there was a stimulus of utility led structured roll-outs in the Obama era that is now gone. Comms now is blended and often driven as we see by the meter vendor having multiple comms carriage paths which it sorts out. I haven't really seen any of these global tenders scale into full country/state area roll-outs recently.
I'm trying carefully to talk about the dynamics of smart energy markets - that's my thing, rather than Cyan specifically. The market environment is changing fast as we all know. We all remember the huge global push around smart cities in 2015-2017, which is now tailing off into business as usual (and the Canadian Google-led mega-one is facing a lot of resistance).
Now the markets are focused on the final maturity of demand flexibility (used to Demand Side Response) around integrated, AI optimised solar, storage and EV. The underpinning infrastructure (including smart meter) are still the same, but the emerging applications move on.
I'm not unique in these kind of insights, Navigant, Poyry, DNV GL and many other expert global consultancies in energy all analyse the markets and choices being made.
When I say 'it is stuck' I mean mesh not anything else. Mesh is no longer the new shiny dream thing nor the easy, cheap thing. It needs actual thought about infrastructure as the DCC infill discussion showed.
There was a mention of Zigbee being the main historic competitor to Cyan in a recent post. This was never really the case. Whereas mesh is a last mile solution, Zigbee very quickly ended up being a last five metre solution for within premise connectivity. It had a brief foray into last mile but it did not get take up.
The competition is the same. First the easy, cheap and proven thing (GPRS) or the shiny dream of the next thing (over time this has been such as whitespace spectrum, bluewave, satellite, LoRA, now NB-IoT then no doubt NB-IoT2 within 5G networks). Cyan is known as a mesh company, that's the primary basis it promotes and while that has benefits - it is stuck in the middle of the two competitive comms types.
Where mesh has been successful recently is in within home broadband boosting. The BT dishes are that and it is increasingly common.
However the ultimate competitor is always within markets Cyan focuses on - what preference does the local meter manufacturer have? In their region they will have long term presence at scale, create lots of jobs and know how to do business. These companies look for a solution that is good enough at lowest price and complexity- whilst talking up other technologies when they have to.
TonyJ - your mention of:
"The trouble with companies having their own comms is that they must fulfill every requirement otherwise they cant sell the meter. As I understand it Omni can communicate with LoRA, NB-IoT etc so there is an advantage in hiring a particular peice of software to solve a problem which would take time and money to overcome."
This raises a good point, meter comms is often driven by easy answers (2G), the latest thing (NB-IoT), not needing any special regulatory clearance (back to 2G) or sometimes inertia ('this is just too hard'). The comms answers from meter companies often aren't the best (certainly until recently they were fairly poor incomparison to dedicated comms providers) - just the easiest to contract for. Utilities often find this all decision making complex and so it is easiest just to 'give it all to and they will sort it'. That thinking has driven me to distraction over the years but it's understandable.
L+G only partners when it had to. I envisage if CC was in there, it would of said (but I do not know, I would of if it was me). L+G is known for always going for its own solution, unless absolutely necessary. Globally it is close to Trilliant too, so who knows what they are using - their own, or not. I anticipate their own solution but cannot verify.
Things are evolving quickly in Sweden, I'm back there soon. What happened before, may not be the case now. I do not know specifically on those you mention and I'm not speaking specifically either about CC. People including you should make their own views.
Gridstream is its own comms platform, I've engaged with them around it and others. Those big companies don't like relying on anyone outside and I promise I'm not saying that related to CC, it's just they are big and its easiest to do things themselves without depending on someone else. So many meter firms seek to add their own comms and mesh is seen as one possible carrier alongside traditional telco, LoRA, NB-IoT. It's not just the huge meter companies, Kamstrup for example has its own comms too. EDMI is offering its own comms now, having not done its own carriage years ago.
It's really hard to do business in Iran and even harder to get the money out. Effectively when Trump changed direction on Iran a while ago, it made the banks and payment services even more cautious. That's not related specifically to energy but it will not of made the situation any easier.
https://www.businesscloud.co.uk/news/steamaco-completes-5m-financing
https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/energy-grid-management/colorado-springs-signs-20-year-smart-meter-rollout-and-management-deal/ - L+G providing both the meters and its own communications platform.
This is conistent with the Hong Kong announcement I included a few days ago with EDMI supplying both the meters and its own communications platform.
Across my daily newsfeed, these looked relevant:
https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/india-plans-to-change-all-electricity-meters-to-prepaid-smart-meters-by-2022-1563331480075.html - ambitious timescales.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edmi-selected-smart-meter-provider-000000587.html - EDMI contracted for meter provision to Hong Kong smart meter roll out by CLP (if you follow the link, you will see they added their own comms solutions over recent years whereas previously they were more dependent externally).
That was part of the growth of mesh in USA in support of annual storms and fires. I saw it in action once and it was impressive to see the connectivity reform. Also with real end point addressability, individual properties could be pinged remotely to see if the power was still on after a storm and help target where to send services. From there, it would be clear where to reform the comms from too, for example with a short term signal boost sent from the headend application.
It needs investment programmes to be agreed by state commissioner authority for energy, we might see more of that in USA. Depends on the federal government there of course.
Final thing - Tony I literally said China uses its own RF band that is all, as in the spectrum range. They are non standard in that regard. This means comms modules designed for such as 865-868mhz do not work and need bespoke ones. They also have extensive PLC carriage and signal noise between urban towers that can make reliable connectivity more complex. These are all issues for mesh. Additionally the main comms company in China controls Grid access connectivity. So any Chinese company has to go through a long cycle with them. China has huge PLC based meter deployments already. Often 2G/3G is used as a back haul carriage for mesh, or even satellite but PLC is not great for back haul.Therefore any deal in China will take account of these issues that has been material for all companies doing meter/grid/city connectivity there.I knew all this and didn't want to get into it. That's all fact. So that little mention I had of their own RF band is backed up by experience. That was my final bit. You will notice I haven't commented on the deal at all.
Tonyj - I'd happily carry on posting but you're only going to go on and on if I do. It becomes boring very quickly when I am doing this on limited spare time. I'll stop for a little while just so I don't have to read that stuff and reply to it. Unfortunately your dominance here restricts insight.
You really can't accuse me of lacking objectivity given your incessant pro CC posts based on almost no actual news flow. I'm not invested, would like a UK company to do well, know CC and companies around it. CC does not benefit or disbenefit me in any way. Believe me when I say I have taken great care in what I have written at this board.
Over to you then..... TTFN
Where did I say CC is done for? I did not say or imply that.
Time for me to take a break here again if you're seeing what I did not write.
Tonyj - let's not be silly. I am trying to give experienced insight linked to real facts. I do this for a living. I'm paid to be really close to it all. You will note anything I initiate is linked to a specific announcements. Let anyone come up with their own informed other view based on comparable experience. What I put in these recent posts are the truth. I've been all around the world doing this in all the countries mentioned and many more. When people were mentioning trips to Japan earlier this year- I was an invited speaker at the smart energy expo. I was actually there with my team already.
I am not invested nor linked to anyone with a position. I do what I do for a living in the sector and I'm successful at it for thirty years. Take what I say for what it is or ignore it. Check back if you like to what I said when I originally posted a year ago. It all turned out as I said.
I've posted here because like lots of people in the market, I have had some experience of CC and felt some real current experience might be of benefit. Others say that but don't actually.bothet to post. People are basing decisions here on assertions rather than experience.
You are absolutely not right about local choices, if I was wrong CC would not need to get orders via local meter companies in India - its strongest market. That is the trend in utility led.deployments
Meter companies are developing and promoting their comms as the most efficient route. I've been involved in this area across four companies over time, advised governments and utilities. Ignore me if you like but at least be informed.
I'm happy to leave it all with you. But when I have some more fact based insight, I will return to share. No point my causing your deluded accusations.
Hope it works out for you. Back in the near future.
CB - Connode had contracts and engagement but ran out of road financially, Cyan Technology had access to fund raising via its AIM position and cycles of raising but no European contracts. Connode also had features wanted in tenders (but not sure whether any of their tech is still really part of the offer anymore, though IPV6 etc is now incorporated I believe).
However the Connode revenue was in future so no near term addition from their acquisition to fund the new costs, so needed prompt cost rationalisation. It headed off both competing as the small player against each other but then major contract appointments on smart metering slowed or went entirely local - delaying revenue upside further. Back when the deal was done Sweden had not embarked on the revitalization of its energy market and next era of smart metering. So Connode was less visible and shrinking locally when market was engaging in time for next stage of the market (there are some key changes going live in 2020).
In saying all this, before anyone quite reasonably asks - I'm not privy to special info. I'm just deeply immersed in smart energy and strategy is my area.
I think e.on Sweden is making some long term strategic choices. Sweden is transitioning to second era of smart metering/grid and needs local, scalable solutions. Local really matters in that region
The involvement of CC was a legacy to Connode which in my understanding is gone now with no strong local presence there. I also do not believe CC has local deployment capability at scale in Sweden.
CC future depends on India. Everyone here can see that without my input.
UK and to a lesser degree China are useful, but limited. China will always ultimately go local and need bespoke changes (China RF uses it's own unique bands for example). In UK it is good to be inside but that is throttled in how far it can go as part of the future DCC solution mix I perceive. That was also Connode originated not Cyan, not that it makes a profound difference.
Other emerging markets haven't matured at scale in energy, Cyan had a good early go but a mixture of inertia, funding issues, politics, market models and lack of real driver pushed those back. We all remember the era of endless trials. Now local meter companies are seeking to take control in those regions.
The more broad issue right now is the direction of metering companies adding communications solutions internally - which is far easier than a comms company becoming an integrated metering company. Globally metering is in a long tail of convergence and consolidation. The revenues post install are small and the dream of monetisable analytics has not happened (dedicated players are emerging and will take that value - Bidgley, Simble, Innowatts, Onzo erc etc). They may end up bought but for now it's really hard to add paid value to comms for smart metering.
For a while in a number of counties competitive interoperability of meters was considered a major need. But this is not true in most and very hard to do in comparison with a single integrated solution from one meter company interfacing to a local distribution utility. That's beyond CC control but makes their engagement tough in distribution Utility led situations. The independent comms platform market is based on wanting more than one meter on the same network. Where one will do, it is a cheaper, easier answer for the meter company to control it. Itron buying SSN said that debate is mostly over. Interoperability is an article of faith, where it is needed it opens opportunity, where not the meter company will usually prevail.
Hope that helps.