Member Info for devonplay

"at least" "less well" such positive words....NOT.

Once upon a time most high streets included a "stamp shop" there were several in London alone, now they are just a handful across the whole of the UK. Testement to how little interest there remains in the "hobby".
You have to wonder how long poor old Stampex will keep going. I suppose as long as there's old men wanting to stand around contemplating their next £10 spend. Science. Physics or stamp collecting? ..... more like watching paint dry. There really is no science in SGI shareprice, just the heavy weight of gravity pulling eathward. Never to reach for the stars again. SGI=stay grounded indefinitely :)

"funding position remain uncertain"
the market hates "uncertain"
Pearls has been banging on about recovery here for years....he/she is at least certain, most of us are "less certain". almost as uncertain as that funding position.

2018 is a key date, when Bill Gross, the legendry investor, sold his collection for multi million dollars.
Many consider that being thre high point of the stamp market in recent years. We are back in the deep waters of irrelevance as far as considering stamps an investments - again . Maybe in couple of years time, but for the moment short dated high yield, emerging markets debt and equities, exclusing SGI equity of course, make much more sense. It might be worth considering more averge collectible stamps as an investment, in additon to the very small number of very high value stamps, post 2023, by that time we might see the end of the equity bull market, exclusing SGI equity of course it's likely to still be in "recovery mode", running out of steam as inflation bites. Worth looking at stamps in 2023/24 maybe? In a similar vain the equity of SGI 23/24?

REC up 10% as I type.

I wouldn't consider it a tip, I'm certainly not adding more. It may or may not move up further. It's a solid long term business. I locked a lot of it away with a high yield, so my return is very substantial. In overall terms. I'm not a buyer at the present price.
If you want a tip. Try looking at IXNG.L John Baron has been buying it for long term inflation protection. Something stamps are unlikely to offer as they haven't over the last 30 years. If we do get inflation that could be an issue for the discretionary spending SGI offer, as disposable income gets eaten up.
I very rarely offer tips on any stocks I'm buying. Why would I want to? I'd be more interested in accumulating them at lower prices that have the herd push them up.
Of course REC.L won't appeal to you. You haven't yet realised that buying good companies at a reasonable price is better than buying poor companies at cheap prices. ;) LOL

Time to start accumulating these?

Excellent results this morning from REC.L hopefully it will support the doubling of the share price over the last 12 months. I've mine locked away with a decent yield. Good balance sheet, unlike here, growth potential with the possible 500m launch of it's ESG fund and market conditions working in it's favour. I'm not adding as I'm over-weight in my portfolio. Lovely little business with newly invigorated management.

There must be a large opportunity in the ESG space, so there could be more growth down the tracks.
Decent balance sheet, growth potential and catching market sentiment. What's not to like.
It will be interesting to see the end of day comparison with market expectations. I'm over-weight REC, so I wont be adding more, but I certainly wont be selling. Good long term hold.

I remember the days when Pearls used to come on this thread wishing SGI was more like ARB....
I guess there's a desperation to get out of SGI and into ARB by talking the price of one up and the other down on the other.
It would make sense. All the pieces fall into place when you look at the posting history. ;)
Bullish on this,negative on ARB. Hoping the SGI could be more like ARB. As I say, all makes perfect sense. I mean, if you'd found a stock you thought was going to "rocket" would you tell the world? No, you'd just quietly accumulate more.

"I look forward to some of you investing in SGI"
Don't you mean: "I look forward to ANY of you investing in SGI" LOL

....please, please, please invest hahaha

"You'll all wish you were in this once it starts rocketing"
Hahahahahahah
See you in a few years then :) When it's "less bad"!

"Phoenix own 58% of the shares and are the company's banker."
https://www.aurorainvestmenttrust.com/ the listed vehicle of Phoenix Asset Management Partners.
% of the UK portfolio investes in Phoenix SG Ltd (Stanley Gibbons)
Jan 21 5.4%
Feb 21 5.0%
March 21 4.8%
Figure for March 2020 7.1%
That suggests that by owning the "fund" rather than SGI you would have been looking at 1 year 55.63% on a much better risk diversified basis.
It's fun seeing Pearls pump away, but Pheonix/Aurora offer exposure to a portfolio of UK companies with long-term value prospects.
Note: Long Term
As of June 2020 they reported £7,6m assets which make up the investment in Stanley Gibbons plc. The remainder being provided by Phoenix Asset Management Partners (or one of it's vehicles).
You can take comfort from the dual exposure of Pheonix or you can see that a potential concerm (as I do). Not a point that would stop me investinging, but one that would make me think about the risks of being a minority shareholder. In most circumstances the market does apply a discount in those circumstance. You can see that easily in CLDN.L Where there's a "Cayzer" discount through the discount to NAV.
Without covid it's very possible that SGI may have returned to profability. That's the general view you get from reading Auror's literature. Would that have resulted in a sky rocketing shareprice, that's less clear. Pearls would have you believe so, I'm more cautious. If there was it's likely to be driven by retail, exagerated by the limited free float, and just as likely to ebb away. Institutional investor - I very much doubt they'd get past Pheonix's control.
So Aururo may be a better bet for the majority of retail investors, it's trading close to NAV (as I remember it) and offers diversification, respected management in the sector and liquidity.
Of course that wouldn't help Pearls :) If like, ArvInv, there was profits I'd be tempted to let it run and go look for somewhere else to deploy the principal. I see nothing wrong with investing in SGI for the long term. After all, it's key investor and banker are experts in doing so. If you get past how much they control it through the debt, and how much they got invested of other people's money, it's a possible recovery/turn around play. I'm remain of the view, if there was an option, I'd prefer the debt over the equity. It's gone be much stickier and I suspect what will get serviced first. Auruor might have an influence on that. As ever, one for the long term botom draw.
Pump away! LOL

It's always interesting to see what other investors are doing. I haven't much interest in "crypto", so my "alternatives" have been around social & green infrastructure. Mainly debt and some unlisted equity. Oil is so out of favour that I'm only exposed in a very small way through a debt issue. The "green" listed market is over heated in my opinion and I see more value in secured green debt and green start-ups. There's often SEIS & EIS on offer. I did one the other day with an implied yield of 10% once you'd taken the SEIS (a tax rebate) into consideration and all it's income was from the NHS/Local Government. Like a distressed Muni, but with HMG providing a "gilt hedge". With social infrastructure you can get 5-6% yield from long term property leases where the lease is in principal underwritten by HMG. One of the areas they really interests me is litigation funding. It's easy in the US, but for the UK we have Burford (now listed over there) and AxiaFunder. There can be eye watering returns. If I was generating more income in $ I'd explore the US options. Land, as they say, isn't being made any more, so it's always attractive. My portfolio is over weight in property, which has been a pain last year, but it could be an area which could provide some real opportunities for capital and income. I hold physical Gold and Silver, the Gold at c$700, the Sliver c£16. I'm watching PHAU.L & GDX on a weekly basis. If we get a couple of years of roaring 20's then I'll be taking some of the income an buying gold if there's substantive weakness. People have short memories, so will be dumping gold to buy equities, forgetting there's going to be another period of the stress coming down the tracks at some stage. I think you may be right about trimming your gold. Unless you have a very long horizon. I do, I'm focused on intergenerational investing, so buying it when it's moved out of fashion appeals. If it's at a price I like. Very Diversified Assets is what I'm about. It's amazing what's available to private investors these days. To give you a flavour, in the last 6 weeks I've invested in:
"City" (as in City of London) property, E-car charging points start-up, Pharma royalty payments, index linked regional property, social impact start-up, FTSE 100 index , diversified manufacturing group (listed), FTSE 250 high yield index, short date global high yield bonds, litigation financing, ORB listed "oiler" debt, local organic multi-unit food retailer and Premium Bonds!
- and nothing into stamps :)

LOL, you are very clearly proving my point. It's beholding to one party, you are a minority shareholder in a business dependant on goodwill.
Yes, I refuse to read the! Like you refuse to understand the "less bad" update.;)
You sound shocked at how vulnerable that makes you. Haven't you considered it before?
"the long term" finally, you're starting to understanding this could take years. Those "soft rates" again. LOL Out of the goodness of their hearts, I mean they are tripping over themselves to promote the equity aren't they? Don't we see them doing road shows, a video updates all the time....
"Owning shares is always a dynamic situation" Yeah, I'm almost blown away by how dynamic the price action is, 5 trades on a good day! God knows what it would be like without the Financial PR!
So they've turned their £19.45m ( 58% of the shares) into 58% of today's market of £13m and secured it with a £10m loan and you think that's positive, supportive and they spend all their time worrying about minority shareholders. I would think the opposite, they have written off £7m, their equity is down to £9m and they are having to defer the debt payments to stop it defaulting. If there's anything thinking on a basic level required you should be doing it. Face the facts, slow turn-around, company not making any profits, couldn't service it's debt and turnover ain't increasing in any meaningful way. To top it off; collectibles are booming everywhere else, it's just "less bad" here and there's a market wide rally they aren't participating in. Well them and HBR.
There you go, you've provided an overview, that's not open to interpretation and outlines how precarious minority shareholders interest are in the business. We thank you.
Phoenix have lost a hell of a lot on this transaction, but hey ho, they couldn't possibly take it private and secure the other 42% could they by calling in the debt and diluting you out. If they did they'd still have control of the business (and most likely the debt), what would you, as minority holders, have.....?

LOL so in fact the only thing that keeps the business going is the good will of it's major shareholder and banker. It wasn't able to meet it's debt obligation after all.
Sounds a very strong position for minority shareholders to find themselves in....
You mean it doesn't matter that the company has unmet obligation and only survives on good will?
So they are going to put that behind the interest of minority shareholder?
You sound like you've just realised the share price doesn't matter to the major shareholder and how precarious your position is as minority shareholder is. Precarious indeed. If you think you rank the same as the majority shareholder and senior debt holder, then you really don't understand corporate finance. Talk of debit holders v shareholder, well for minority shareholder is very much to the point. You only matter whilst they find having some free float and a list advantageous. If they call in the debt, they they'll still control the business, you'll just best diluted out of existence.
I don't need to go back to 2017 & 2018. It's all very apparent from the December 2020 update. The infamous "less bad" RNS.
That's why time may be pressing for you, and your desire to exit, but for them there's less rush, after all, they got the debt that can be serviced for years down the road without any need for appreciation of the equity. They can take the next 3-5 years working their cash out through debt capital repatriation.
You sound spooked! Maybe because your missing out on the general market rally. Well, the advice would be, do as the other poster "I was pretty bullish on the company but have gone cold" (the one you seem to think was bullish) and remove your capital. Alternatively accept this is a turn around and could take a few years to get out of the weeds.
"Soft banking facility" LOL how naive can an investor be. They are bank rolling this as a charity thing for minority shareholders...... obviously :) hahaha

LOL. This should be funny.

I think that's a wise move. There's a decent enough chance of a bull run on the FTSE for the next couple of years, it would be very easy to miss out on that by sitting here. I'm still accumulating ISF, IUKD and NCYF and toying with a similar strategy with INXG, UK inflation linked gilts, even with the -2% real yield. There's a couple of stocks that I'm buying that have shown some recovery, but are way off their early 2020 averages. Running your profits is decent tactic, but where to deploy the principal? That's the most vexing of questions at the moment. I recently added BPCR to my long term portfolio, they are paying special dividend in the next couple of days. That kind of largess is the exception at the moment LOL I'm running my portfolio profits, but cost averaging on indexes and "adding" where I can see distressed share prices, but recovering business, from portfolio income. That feel like the right strategy. It's quite possible the present rally could reverse....I've had decent enough 12 months with my portfolio is showing c14% upside, that's just above my long standing average. Which probably says a lot about the type of investor I am. Very happy to keep growing c10% + pa for the next decade. Lets hope!

It doesn't sound promising. The investment based recovery has 30 years weight on it's shoulders and tech savvy young generation not seeing through marketing hype? I think relevance is the key issue. I'm afraid a "fashion" driven recovery doesn't sound a compelling bullet point in the deck. I think I'll stick with my original view. Nice if you are controlling the debt. Mid to long term recovery, but without a substantial shake up in the management aspiration, then I'm not that confident about the equity. It could take them a few more years to get back to stability. From there, there might be some opportunity. My concern is that debt holders will snaffle all that before it trickles down to the equity participants.

I suspect a lot of it has to does with relevance. If you are under 60, maybe even 70, are stamps relevant? I collected them for a small time in my childhood, before more interesting and exciting option supported by TV came along, my godchildren...well you know the answer to that.
For the over 60's they may be more focused on income generation than speculation, and if they are interested in speculation equity has provided much better returns that stamps for the last 30 years (or so).
For investors, well I've held precious metals in physical form, rounds over coins as it's often more cost effective )and via ETF's and block-chain (physical stock secured)). Stamps, never as an investment...
They may yet come back into fashion, but I'm not seeing any evidence.
SGI may recover and be a nice little business for it's debt holder. The equity, less attractive than it's debt for me.