Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
LTH of Ceres, sadly hold too much in my portfolio, but stuck with it for now.
Making prior year adjustments to reduce past revenues and increase current and future years (presumably to existing contracts) is not common place. The facts will come out in due course, but right now this feels like one or more contracts are not delivering to schedule, and a change of the timing and a "massaging" of the current financial performance is needed. Perhaps otherwise Ceres would not meet forecast. Not unusual for long term contracts, but maybe a late decision for auditors to deal with. Bit concerning.
Hi Mike - demented for sure. If only I had money and guts to add more TUI when it was 7% down (rather than stress). I hope this turns out well for us LTH - and for a start that tomorrow is calmer and not big red....
Be good to hear in due course when trading on LSE will be suspended. Presume there will be a period when cant sell or buy whilst transfer takes place.
Thanks Mike - I agree, and feel the comments from HL help desk were in consistent.
Not sure how delisting from LSE and how our TUI holdings move to the german market - hopefully HL will sort that too
TBH Stumpy I am confused with HL response.
I may be talking rubbish, but I thought all companies on the MDAX (eg Lufthansa) traded on the Frankfurt Exchange, and MDAX is 'just' an index (same as STOXX50).
Therefore I cant see the problem continuing to trade TUI through HL (and my ISA).
Before I go back to HL is my understanding of MDAX correct. Certainly I can go but Lufthansa on HL in my ISA now.
I use the HL platform and have asked HL (assuming they know of TUI plans to delist from LSE) - how this would affect my future TUI trading if that happened.
I thought TUI had said that following any LSE delisting, they would likely continue trading on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange with an upgrade to the Prime Standard market segment and inclusion in the MDAX. I wanted some clarity on implications.
HL reply was "If our TUI holding delisted from the LSE and relisted on the MDAX, you will no longer be able to trade it through HL. We do not have access to that market for trading through our platform. In addition to this, depending on HMRCs ruling, this may mean that the holding becomes ISA inelligible and would therefore be moved from the ISA into a fund and share account, meaning you would lose the ISA status on the cash. We cannot confirm for certain whether it will be deemed eligible or not as that is a decision to be made by HMRC not HL"
Is that what other HL users believe already - must admit I thought as TUI will be on FSE that would be ok to trade.
I am certain more on here are up with this, and more savvy
Like everyone else this is a disaster, and faith I had in not selling befiore rights annoucned was misguided. Never thought it would be this bad. TUI investments exist in every portfolio of the family sadly. I feel only chance of redemption is to spend what I have collected for rights, and decide on Tuesday whether to buy rights or buy XR shares and hope price goes back up substantially.
HL say the rights £ will be used to apply for rights shares on 12/4 (cost £5.10per share incl HL commission). Shares will be in place for 24/4. So presume that means we are in the hands of the gods (or devil) between 12/4 and 24/4 during which time the price could fall below £5.1 - and nothing we can do about it other than watch losses increase. Has anyone a crystal ball to say what price will be at 24/4? Does make me think perhaps not taking all rights and keeping £ for trading in that period may be wise.
Yes Im stressed and being irrational more now. Composure gone too.
Another crap TUI day. Moaning about it wont make it better for me. Incredible vs other airlines.
Just checked HL and need to have money available for rights (only way out now seems to buy) by midday Tuesday 11th.
I will need to sell other investments to have all the cash available - for everyone doing same, dont forget that Friday 7th and Monday 10th are bank holidays. Im assuming I will need to sell Monday or Tuesday next week to ensure settlement is in my HL account. Presume Wednesday is too late - am I correct?
donalb - thanks for your advice but neither of us are insured.
Am sure Im not the only one in this position not that it helps. RIght now Im trying to fathom out whether in this position, I should sell the rights now, sell other investments to buy the rights (incl my existing TUI XR shares perhaps) - what I cant do is not buy or sell the rights of course. If I could work out the best solution thats the best I can do and live with it. Lesson learned.
Thanks Savage_KeyboardR. So basically yes Im screwed if I sell the rights now, and dont find £24k to buy the rights 9066 rights at £4.88 or so which I cant. As rights are 2.67 times the XR shares I have then cant fund it that way either. Similar for my other portfolio. What a dope I have been not selling before TUI announced the rights as didnt research enough. Going outsoide to dig a hole for myself now.
Yes mine have appeared on HL now.
Before the XR I was break even on 1900 shares - at price of £6.716 now those 1900 are showing loss of £13.5k . I now have rights of 5066 shares of £7.7k (@ £1.534) - so right now it looks like Im £5.8k loss down. As I said before I do not think I can afford to buy the rights @£4.8 ish either, and selling seemed sensible. Can someone more savvy than me tell me why I shouldnt stress on how it looks. I am clearly bloody thick and missing something - at least I hope so as have more TUI in my wifes portfolio too. I bow down to those who have more expertise, which is why using this board helps me and others thanks.
Is there a logic to why TUI price is falling when all other airlines are heading opposite direction. I am obviously unclear on the dynamics of TUI rights issue upon the XR price at this time. Was hoping not selling before XR was a wise move even though will have to sell most rights as have lack of cash, but kind of still hoping being in is better than not in my position. It may well be, but just now feel I didnt think this through. Only time will tell.
I am unsure whether it is likely to be better to sell my rights, rather than sell get HL to sell existing shares to pay for the rights. More research for me.
As aside - given what we know of the prospectus TERP and discount of rights etc - is the price we see today before rights (47% lower than yesterday close) about where we expected it to be?
Does it matter I ask myself right now - maybe cant tell until see complete picture in time and see if gain or lose.
It is what it is, and none of us expected could have expected this position over 5% down. I wish knew for sure why it is, but surely acquiring ahead of paying off more debt would not help. Then again an acquisition seemingly cheap was an opportunity to enhace future financial performance woth having, why else would they do this? Maybe the market expected better results, but then I believe they were at the top end of forecast. Having invested far too much, I will stick with it as I have for few years now, am happy where its recovered to, and stressing over it today doesnt make it better. I will buy a few more now though. Sure as hell I dont ever want to imagine IAG now coming to shareholders to help reduce debt like TUI is doing.
HI Mary, thanks - I hadnt realised the holdings at the end of today will also be for the rights qualification. Still unsure why the price is still drifting in truth but did buy in some more today.
Mary, Ive long appreciate reading your posts, and reaction to them, and informative posts from all too. Looking ahead, I normally acquire rights but I have so much invested across the family in TUI (and IAG) especially I simply cannot afford to do so. I certainly cant afford to acquire all the rights this time unless I reduce my holding - so is selling rights usually the next best option? Amateur question I know sorry. Ive never observed the value obtained or process from adopting this approach.
One assumes if not got the cash, then can sell the rights (or some of them). Never done that myself but would look at that this time as cash is short - but if people do that, presume you lose on dilution but cash from sale of right offsets this to some extent. MaryBr190 views please - as you always make sense.
I am heavily invested into TUI (by my standards) and have stuck with the past capital raising like most of us too. I rarely post on here, but take interest in peoples views. Less concerned over share reorg more on how much I need to find for rights assuming its approved. Has there been any incling or speculation of what the next rights issue structure and pricing may look like for us?
Re shaun170294 question. I have ticked yes to paper certs too on ISA holding, albeit really I was hesitant to know what to do for best . For what its worth HL told me they simply provide all my holding and contact details to Evraz and I will get a cert in 2-4 weeks - but I should not expect to receive any other 'forms' with it. Re future dividends, if any, Evraz will contact me should payment methods/options require further details from me. Until then I sit and hope I get the cost of investment back sometime.