Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
This story just gets better and better. So Qatar were looking at offering a bridging loan but pulled out because AAL made their paltry low-ball offer! FFS! Even my nightmares are better than this reality of this story.
Seems strange that you don't admit to the obvious illbetabuck at this stage - that you clearly work for or have vested interests in the AAL bid. Had no clue why you steamrollered onto here but knew it most certainly wasn't for investors benefit. Know now it was clearly to 'soften us up' and seems you are simply trying to portray yourself as the voice of reason. Biggest clue was the 180 degree turn by 'investing' in SXX....the day before the offer came to light. Co-incidence? But of course, with a faceless keyboard warrior, insiderer dealing won't even be investigated, never mind proved.
Oh might add that the voice of insanity is now a tie between FFC and Longtermview, both trying to outdo Mr Stop Brexit by shouting the same vote no, vote no rant ad nauseam. We know you are happier stitching yourselves up out of spite or misguided notions that some white knight *might* reveal themselves but can you leave the rest of us to make our own decisions based on whatever facts or hunches we feel suits our own positions.
Not a big advocate of us being stitched up. And also think if the alternative financing had any legs at all, they would have grabbed it. 7 million quid in CF's pocket is very nice and he can have a fantastic retirement with that money but given he had around £65 million worth in 2016 and this whole project was a once in a lifetime opportunity to make SERIOUS money for him and BOD, I do just feel that the mix of timing, doggedness/blindness to pursue the original intent, lack of creativity, lack of full awareness/naivety and the fact that the project isn't as attractive as we all believed (evidenced by lack of any alternative bidders) has led them (and us) into this sorry state.
I had been communicating very occasionally on peripheral things throughout the years with a director of SM and I said to him in Sept that a PI/public bond was absolutely worth trying. At 5 grand a pop, 85,000 would need to be sold at a rate of say 12% and small equity bonus. Said I would have had 6, friends would have maybe another 10 and many many others would surely be in a similar position. All monies to be held in escrow and only used if target was reached. Was told that historically, PI's have had a small take up of OO but pointed out that it's a whole different story when our whole investment is at stake. And that surely, it was worth trying. But as we know, creative solutions are clearly not their strong point. In the two years after the initial raise, there wasn't one 'out-of-the-box' funding idea floated by SM. It took JPM to suggest the failed plan. It took Strabag to raise the idea of using the spoil transporters instead of the original custom made (even tho I suggested that on here, albeit as a temp solution and I know firk all about mining)...they seem only capable of doing things by the tried (and failed) traditional routes.
Be all and end all, they haven't managed to convince anyone of any major standing other than Gina to believe in the company. And only one bargain hunter believes in the project.
So all that's left is the hope that Polygon have something outrageous up their sleeve, the very dangerous option of a (close!) no vote, hoping that there's enough time and inclination to raise the offer or hobble away with something better than zero and our dreams of the future destroyed. And to try not to kick myself too hard remembering the time I didn't click on the sell button on 11% of my holding at just over 50p.
I have pretty much the same amount to lose. But I'm most certainly not going to throw away any more than I have to just to spite anyone....and very surreal that you'd even consider throwing binning 25(ish)% to prove some sort of point. My future has been damaged enough - I'm certainly not going to vote to destroy it.
....but would Sirius have the balls to attempt to raise it and risk upsetting our new 'knights' if it failed? There is no formal offer so SXX are free to do as they please.
"but if everyone took your advice literally this board could be full of IBAB's sh*te without any rebuttal"
Oh ffs Longtermview - that's EXACTLY what he wants. To clog up the board with rebuttles. You'll NEVER neutralise it - as long as the original message is hijacked, that's job done for it. Stop playing into his/its hands.
Longtermview24 - you are aware of its tactics and yet you still choose to engage. The ONLY reason it posts here is to disrupt! And time and time again, people get sucked in and feel the need to argue/disprove...thus clogging up the board with his agenda.
So two messages from me in the last 24 hours or so. Both immediately hijacked and even after 66 replies, the point of the second one degenerates into whether or not Tim-Nice-But-Dim is a deluded ramper....and yet again, IBAB suceeds into destroying the initial point and entire thread. And any semblance of positivity or alternative thinking about the gains for an organisation by funding the full cost of all tunnelling are swept aside. Again, he is VERY talented at it. Be fully aware that no-one with his/its intelligence would waste so much time, almost 24/7, arguing on a BB where he supposedly has no interest in investing....unless of course, he does have an ulterior motive. EVERYONE who believes he/it is spouting deliberate misinformation and yet engages with or responds to his diatribe is fuelling him. And yet, seemingly, so many cannot resist; thus perpetuating his effectiveness on this board.
So I'll try my original again, and if of any interest, you can either discuss, barrack, ridicule, engage in or ignore what I'm saying. IF however, as I'd suspect, he hijacks immediately, you can alternatively argue against HIS twisted points and accept that YOU are enabling him to make an utter mockery of this BB.
MY ORIGINAL POINT
"To counter the "horror of the brutality" of the 'expected deal' by our resident duplicitous altruist.....
Now there aren't a huge number of organisations with a spare £500m I'll grant you, but they do exist and moreover, some of those who can spend/loan/invest such vast sums fortunately have aligned visions in wanting Sirius and Poly4 to come good.
So just supposing one was prepared to lend £500m (extra amount is to get the 2nd TBM operational in the near future and have funds to complete all tunnelling) at 10% per annum for three years at a 'cost' of 2 billion shares.
One could reasonably assume that with around 10 billion shares total, the SP would be at least 25p by beginning of 2023.
So £165m interest plus £500m worth of shares at the end of 3 years. Maybe throw in a nice 1% royalty to keep them in yearly dividends too. What's not to like? £665m profit for a relatively small risk.
More likely than a predator getting its hands on 90% of the company. IMHO of course."
“Scotman has twice fallen for his manipulation on my two threads. “
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Fallen for? Hardly. Sometimes things need challenging or correcting. That’s the whole point of the board.
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Yes, it means he's got you talking about what he wants to say, not the original poster or subject matter. Of any positive post. Ergo another successful hijack
And yet another hijack. He's VERY talented at it. In my previous post, his/its first remark was very deliberate and calculating. "who cares if a predator comes in other than the shareholders". ON A BB DESIGNED FOR SAID SHAREHOLDERS! So straight away, he gets shareholders backs up and thus, easily gets people to respond to HIS hijack. Then deliberately talks about wasting public/government funds, when he knows full well that it wasn't mentioned and isn't relevant. Just simply to divert to HIS agenda. You are being tricked people. Scotman has twice fallen for his manipulation on my two threads. He's apparently NOT invested here but has an alert day and night and posts pretty much immediately. There IS a reason for it and is absolutely NOT to engage in balanced discourse. Which is all the more nauseating as for the genuines here. Fool you once.............
My previous post just highlights IBAB's modus operandi on here and proves his nefarious actions are worthwhile for him and his agenda.
I'm not saying my post was a work of genius but it most certainly contained a positive message and a slightly different perspective - positivity is something he is very anxious to stifle.
So straight away, he hijacks the post (FOUR MINUTES AFTER IT WENT LIVE!!!), spreads HIS twisted take ( I didn't read it originally as I have him/it on filter!) and then of course, everyone talks about what he's said rather than the message from the OP. Another twist on his previous post - job done and again, he has destroyed another thread. Who says one person cannot influence an entire BB? He's very good at it and is doing it on an hourly basis....and people here are falling for it every time.
To counter the "horror of the brutality" of the 'expected deal' by our resident duplicitous altruist.....
Now there aren't a huge number of organisations with a spare £500m I'll grant you, but they do exist and moreover, some of those who can spend/loan/invest such vast sums fortunately have aligned visions in wanting Sirius and Poly4 to come good.
So just supposing one was prepared to lend £500m (extra is to get the 2nd TBM operational in the near future) at 10% per annum for three years at a 'cost' of 2 billion shares.
One could reasonably assume that with around 10 billion shares total, the SP would be at least 25p by beginning of 2023.
So £165m interest plus £500m worth of shares at the end of 3 years. Maybe throw in a nice 1% royalty to keep them in yearly dividends too. What's not to like? £665m profit for a relatively small risk.
More likely than a predator getting its hands on 90% of the company. IMHO of course.
From my post of 13th October.
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I've said before and stand by it - that in the new look strategic review, Sirius will look to fast track significant production. With either the TBM mucking system conveyors or the track already laid for the TBM/maintenance vehicle (or combination of the two) plus expected road haulage; could lead to 4-6 million tonnes per annum from start. Therefore first income will be dramatically ramped up.
Obviously the cost of getting to this level of production will also be massively reduced, especially as it's highly likely that they'll drop to two TBM's.
To get to this stage, I'd propose that a combination of the following would be possible/desirable:
~DMC would agree to defer payment for the shafts for x number of years for 10-15%pa interest plus 1-2% royalty. Maybe a few hundred million shares too.
~ Qatar Investment Authority would lend or fund Sirius $X hundred million in return for interest, royalty, 1-2 billion shares, free product or any other variation.
~ A Private/Retail Investor Bond be sold, again at 10-15%pa return plus 1 share per dollar or whatever. Unlikely I know as it seems to have been on CF's 'crackpot list' but for myself, I'll never buy another share in SXX, no matter what. But I'd be happy to buy £30k worth of bonds IF it means safeguarding my investment with minimal dilution. Maybe many others feel the same. No harm in trying it to supplement the above.
Superb couple of posts Sorceror and while it aligns with my thinking/hope, I just couldn't see the company giving up almost a fifth of the profits although I certainly would be delighted if the company takes more pain rather than the shareholders. Have previously posted that Chris SHOULD look at maximising his worth, rather then the profits of the co once he's moved on/retired. If the company keeps 94% of revenue, it benefits him not a jot. Higher SP benefits him exponentially.
FFS Tiggerman, you're playing into their hands. By 'retiring', you're going to aid supression of 'real' news but allow freedom for the agenda driven or the bitter and twisted to spout their bile and nonsense ad infinitum. We get few enough genuine, informed and honest posters on here without you leaving the fold. The silent majority here salute you and appreciated the snippet of hope you provided on Friday. I urge you to remain and post what you hear. Cheers
As Sheps pointed out, GK is one of the most dangerous people on this (or any other) board. Most of his postings are/seem to be altruistic and well informed and yet, he absolutely plays his own game. So, as sdow noticed, he 'seemed' to be one of THE most informed posters and to be relied on. When we were in the high 40's, he was regularly posting that the SP would rocket once funding was announced...still lots of traction left etc etc. But of course, was just playing the board to encourage everyone to buy whilst he in fact sold out before the Stage 1 fundraise was announced. Is happy to admit it too. So I must admit, when he reckoned that recent bond funding was guaranteed, that worried me more than anything as assumed he'd be once again playing the board. At least Tricky Dicky Two and his ilk are very transparent.
The new agreement with Muntajat could be the most exciting and transformational piece of information we've had in a long time. Yes, they could simply be showing faith in the product IF Sirius can fund and get it out the ground only. I think this unlikely, especially as it's looking to the future and a combination nitrogen / Poly4 cutting edge product. And given the company statement that "Muntajat is focussing on building scale, expanding its reach and utilising its global marketing network", I can only assume that they will aggressively market this product as quickly as they possibly can, as this could be their standout product/USP in their portfolio. So given a win-win situation for Muntajat and the Qatar Investment Authority, I would bet whatever value I currently have in my SXX shares that they will provide much needed funds, again at a mutually beneficial cost.
I've said before and stand by it - that in the new look strategic review, Sirius will look to fast track significant production. With either the TBM mucking system conveyors or the track already laid for the TBM/maintenance vehicle (or combination of the two) plus expected road haulage; could lead to 4-6 million tonnes per annum from start. Therefore first income will be dramatically ramped up.
Obviously the cost of getting to this level of production will also be massively reduced, especially as it's highly likely that they'll drop to two TBM's.
To get to this stage, I'd propose that a combination of the following would be possible/desirable:
~DMC would agree to defer payment for the shafts for x number of years for 10-15%pa interest plus 1-2% royalty. Maybe a few hundred million shares too.
~ Qatar Investment Authority would lend or fund Sirius $X hundred million in return for interest, royalty, 1-2 billion shares, free product or any other variation.
~ A Private/Retail Investor Bond be sold, again at 10-15%pa return plus 1 share per dollar or whatever. Unlikely I know as it seems to have been on CF's 'crackpot list' but for myself, I'll never buy another share in SXX, no matter what. But I'd be happy to buy £30k worth of bonds IF it means safeguarding my investment with minimal dilution. Maybe many others feel the same. No harm in trying it to supplement the above.
If necessary/possible:
~ Strabag coming to a similar agreement as DMC for finishing the tunnel. (Less crucial and less expensive)
~ One or more of the original funding organisations 'paused' from earlier this year could be persuaded to enter back into the fray, if they saw clear funding for early production.
Am more confident/less terrified than I've been in quite some time!
According to their website, it's a billion euro contract. It's not going to be a billion profit. And yes, no-one is going to give a hand out. But maybe the partners will want a real win-win relationship, not whatever they can get in a firesale. Everyone wins or almost everyone loses.
~Strabag will earn over 1 billion euro from this project. What are they prepared to do/contribute/defer/lease in order to ensure completion of contract? Would they just walk away or attempt to help find a solution?
~2 TBM's have been commissioned and presumably partially/fully built. Is there a ready made customer waiting in the wings, willing to take it off their hands at a slight discount? Or again, is it worth finding a new solution to ensure eventual payment?
~Herrenknecht Vertical Shaft Sinking Machines have been manufactured. If they haven't yet been paid for.......see above.
~ADM have a whole new marketing strategy based around Poly4. What are they prepared to do in order to ensure supply? They clearly believe in, and want this product.
These companies are our 'home players', not forgetting any major shareholders, who all have a vested interest in completion of this project, as well as a hell of a lot to lose if it fails.
Fat lady isn't yet getting into her taxi!
ALTERNATIVE PLAN B
Assuming that the new development plan requires significantly less money to get to the minor production stage, could they simply go back to the previous lenders and reactivate that plan, without the need for the IPA? There appeared to be around $2 billion on the table without our wonderful government's assistance - surely less than that would take us to mucking-conveyor level production?
Feel free to dissect/mock these ideas but hey, at least I'm offering solutions that don't wipe us out. I assume that's the BOD's ideal outcome too.