Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Jimarillo.. Its a tough one either way.. Would expect that either they are now post-trading halt, drilling into the cormorant and so pcl decided due to the materiality of the situation, to go in trading halt and wait for the outcome.. OR.. theyve drilled right thru and it looks to be a duster.. The terminology in the announcement doesnt pursuade it either way.. cos although it says "results of drilling" it could be interpreted as though the drilling is almost at conclusion.. this wouldnt be good.. too fast.. usually means duster.. Nevertheless.. char is hobbling close to lows again, so on merit of its own prospect its worth getting in..
Guys there is nothing at all in the document that indicates the level rises from max needed 3.5 or so pence to triple that and triple again..
It clearly states the start point as Performance Rights Allocation Price being the 60 day vwap before Rights issue(=15th october).. this would be 1.2p
There is nothing indicating that the next yrs base level will be triple the previous yr.. nothing at all can be interpreted in the document as such..
The rising element is part of the performance test..
It is done each yr for 3yrs..
It is comparing 60day vwaps over that yr with respect to the Performance Rights Allocation Price..
The Performance Allocation Price is only determined once... the document does not indicate anywhere that it changes after yr 1 or after yr2..
So the 1.2p level is the one used each yr to determine if at least 50% to 200% of that level has occurred on 60day vwap..
Ie; max needed each yr is only 3.6p...
Coòpz
Why do you use 3.45p as start for yr 2?
Why do you use 10.35p as start for yr 3?
This is completely wrong..
This does not change at all..
The start is 1.2p
Performance Rights Allocation Price..
It is in the formula which is used every yr independantly..
It is only determined once.. 60day vwap before 15th october..
There is NOTHING in the documemt that indicates the 3.5p level rising each yr cumulatively... sorry.. but thus is wrong...
1.2p is the start figure.
At 1st then at 2nd then at 3rd anniversary; ie 15th october each yr..
The rising table is measured against 1.2p...
And if the sp is 50 to 200% higher than Performance Rights Allocation Price (which is only ever determined once) then the CASH or shares are awarded..
200% is the 3.6p level..
When this calculation is repeated every yr.. basically the bar is only ever as high as 3.6p
Not the ongoing cumulative rises which some of you are stating...
Guys..
I thought MrMartini reported back after the presentation..
Unless my memory is bad, he asked DW and got confirmed it meant 6.3cent over the 3 yrs..
Which unfortunately means equates to the flat 3.5p over each yr..
It is true that it is rising.. but NOT from 3.5p at all..
The start is like 1.2p or so.. the Performance Rights Allocation Price=60day vwap before 15th october..
This part never changes..
Yes each tranche is calculated independantly.. but the 1.2p level above never changes.. it is only determined once...
Nothing in the document states anything that directly indicates that the start point changes .
Nothing of what any of you wrote indicates that it does.. unfortunately..
This 1.2p level only has to go up 50% to 200% then DW gets something and it can be CASH.. meaning it can very likely NOT be aligning him with shareholders in this sense...
So unfortunately it is very clear that it is a flatish level of 3.5 or 3.6p each yr which will be the bar for DW to get his yearly 6.4mill equivalent shares in CASH or shares...
I am aware of the Resources and Reserves tranches..
They are strange in that apart from winx virtually nothing until 2020 with the drill.. for resources stated 400mmbo they will need discovery drills tied with 3d.. it can only be acheived across 2 to 3 projects being successful..
The reserves figure will need multiwell longerterm flowtests meaning hrz is best candidate for that one.. but without definite hrz farmout and without definite committed wells who knows whether this would even happen within the three years...
So for me it is rather strange that the incentive program is what clearly appears to be for 3.6p bar in each year for the majority of the program... while the other minor parts will be very difficult to achieve in that time...
I believe this effectively leaves longterm holders open to a potential serious shafting...
Because based on this incentive package for DW... then he can easily maintain the 3.6p bar over those years and hit those other targets by diluting the hell out of the shares on issue over the nxt two or three yrs...
In fact this is why i donot understand why all the longterm holders are not concerned at all...
With the assets at hand the sp targets should be much higher..
DW is obviously not having an easy time with farmout.
There msy be no reason to state that he is fantastic at raising cash but he has never done a farmout in his life... not at this magnitude..
It doesnt mean he cant pull this off.. but if this program was presented for approval after at least one farmout then the risk of there being no actual completed farmouts but just further cash raisings would go away...
Which ever way i look at it.. i donot understand why such a low sp bar for incentive program nor why all longterm holders are not concerned..
I believe it is so concerning that one should be voting NO so that they present later.. after a completed farmout perhaps or raise the
HarryGatto..
Posters have placed opinions..
I havent received response from anyone stating why 3.6p level is an acceptable bar for 2019, 2020 and 2021.. none at all..
Unfortunately just silly remarks..
I do not question what the document infers..
Effectively a 3.6p bar across the three upcoming years..
I am happy with what i read being reality..
There is nothing at all there to suggest otherwise..
Therecis no need for me to call DW and ask whether something exists that is NOT written in the document .
It seems clear to me..
If someone else can explain any other numbers using the document directly then feel free to.
Amnesic.. will you still be voting yes ??
Are you able to tell me why?
Considering such a low sp bar for the nxt 3yrs ??
I donot wish to be proverbially shafted by this sort of incentive program.. so i am posting here about it hoping other longterm 88e genuine holders can either prove me wrong, or explain why such a low sp level would be good, considering a holder of 88e securities can only get decent return the higher and higher the sp is.. and NOT just above 3.6p over course of 3yrs...
Funny thing is..
15october as the Performance Rights Issue date upon approval, means the performance term begins from that day..
The Performance Allocation Price is determined on 60day vwap leading up to it...
So the 60days up to 15th october.. roughly 15th august to 14th october..
The current period we are in..
So 1.15 or 1.2p ish is the base for each years calculation..
Cos this Performance Allocation Price does not change..
Nothing in the documents neither states that itll change nor can be interpreted as such...
Triple this value is 3.5 to 3.6p.. ie; the bar for 2019, 2020 and 2021..
If i am not wrong..
That means it is in DWs personal vested interest, for the sp level to remain as low as possible over the roughly 15th august to 14th october period...
I was wondering why no RNS came out telling us that 3d seismic gives 88e .25bill prospective oil lift on icewine conventional..
That would have been a material market sensitive announcement probably pushing sp somewhat higher.
Maybe it will still happen..
I donot hold my breath though..
If i have anything whatsoever factually wrong.. as always.. i stand to be corrected :-)))
Each year on Vest Date (1st, 2nd, 3rd year anniversary of Performance Rights issue date) the performance calculation is made in relation to Performance Rights Allocation Price.. which is 60day vwap leading up to Performance Rights Issue date.. which should be the date of GM.. ie; upon approval the Performance rights are granted to DW for the max. 32mill shares performance plan..
The Performance Rights Issue date is a one time event..
The Performance Rights Allocation price will be the 60day vwap up to Performance Rights Issue Date. Ie; GM date which is 15 october..
So that one figure of probably 1.15 or 1.2p is used for performance calculation on each Vest Date anniversary...
Therefore it can only be 3.5 to 3.6p level as the bar each time over the 3 yrs...
There is nothing stating the start point changes after each yr...
Performance rights are done once they are approved a GM if it happens.. tgat is a oneoff event..
The 1st and 2nd and 3rd anniversaries are the Vesting Dates when performance is calculated using that Performance rights allocation figure..
It says nowhere that the base level will change each yr so that the tripling is cumulative over those yrs..
If i am shown to be wrong.. then i will duly accept it..
Amnesic.. where do you get 10.8p and 32.4p from ???
It doesnt state that the sp needs to triple every year at all..
The bar is 3.5p for each year or on 1.2p its 3.6p each year..
There is no tripling of that number over consecutive yrs..
How did you come up with that ??
Jiddy..
You have not responded to the issye of ONLY 3.5p level being the bar for DW into 2019, 2020 and 2021...
Why would i ask DW why he has such a dodgy incentive program..
He will just tell me whatever he wants so that i walk away feeling happy..
The reality is what it is... 3.5p ish level is effectively tge bar for all those yrs..
Yet you all seem to accept that ONLY this level is required for the ceo to take big bonuses.. what would such a level do to your return over that timeframe?
Why is the bar not higher ? Indicating the value of the underlying assets??
Brombarb.. why such a response.. i thought you were a longterm holder in 88e ?? So you are ok if the ceo is only incentivised with the same 3.5p level going thru 2020 and 2021 ??
Is that all you would be expecting based on underlying assets..
Your response is very strange to this... unfortunately..
You are on this board virtually every day behaving like a moderator..
You took over the wiki from people who setup the longterm holders group. They or one of them was outed as being boiler room bandit ??
All seems a tad strange..
For the life of me i do understand why other longterm holders would be happy with such low incentive target levels...
Amnesic.. i can confirm i read and understand the incentive program for DW and my comments are not based on board tittletattle..
Unfortunately you have not stated anything in regards to genuine 88e holders
That obviously doesnt include paid lakkies posting on these BBs.. but actual genuine holders of 88e securities... as to why such a low level of sp should or could be acceptable to them, considering the underlying assets and the farmouts that are supposed to occur..
Instead you insult me...
Amnesic.. i donot know where you appeared from all of a sudden so i donot know if you are a genuine shareholder in 88e..
Instead of addressing the fact that the Incentive program incentivizes DW to only do enuff to maintain the underlying sp at 3.5p or so for 60day periods over 2019 and 2020 and 2021..
With no farmouts being concluded means it is definitely open to ongoing serious equity dilutions... hence still hitting reserves and resources but low sp cos 10bill or 15bill shares on issue.
This would not be an issue if DW incentive program was placed in front of genuine shareholders after farmout.. not now..
3.5pence over 2020 and over 2021 for 60day vwap etc..
All genuine holders should be concerned..
George has told me i would take it now..
The underlying assets should give a much better return than ONLY 3.5p ish level.. unless DW does what he is best at.. dilute us to buggery..
No i am not part of a gang to make the sp do anything..
I simply urge all genuine holders of 88e shares to read and understand the incentive document for DW...
If they are happy with him getting CASH bonuses or shares for the sp ONLY being 3.5p for 60days over 2019, then again in 2020 and again in 2021.. then so be it...
I have not stated anything against employee incentives...
I am referring to the murky incentive package for DW...
The timing stinks.. the elements make no sense...
I will be voting NO..
Unfortunately posters like georgr and amnesic have not placed forward one iota of a reason for a genuine hold of 88e to accept 3.5p performance levels for 2020 and 2021
I was referring to icewine acreage..
Without that there will be no reserves nor resources to the levels in the proposed package.. so why put it in there ??
The package will start once it is approved.. if that happens.. but no drilling into icewine package until 2020..
Very simplemm the MAJOR elements of incentive package are keeping sp above a sp level which will effectively be 3.5pence..
Over most of 2019. Over most of 2020. Over most of 2021..
Even if whatever work is completed.. this sp level is way to low for anyone to say that the Incentive package is aligned with Shareholder interests...
I hope that genuine holders get to the point that they understand what is being presented to them..
As a genuine longterm holder i find the package unacceptable cos it is not an incentibe to consistent drive the underlying sp higher..
The sp is the only thing which will provide a return to genuine longtetm holders... not champers and caviar and rubbing shoulders with the BoD ..