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Boyo,
I simply stated that Ocados cash reserves are being depleted quickly and it's debt is rising sharply. Ocados liquidity has reduced £400m since previous year. Of course Ocado will want to raise funds well ahead of needing them. Significant likelihood of another cash raise possibly this year, most likely next year imo.
Clarification & correction:
intangible assets (like software development costs)
VP Re: ‘ Cash and cash equivalents of £884.8m at the end of the period (FY22: £1,328.0m) ….’
That drop is largely in respect of the £536.4m purchases of property, plant, equipment and intangible assets (like software)
So it’s investments (exactly as it is termed in the results you quoted) it's not cash burn as you seemed to imply. Did you intend to portray it as that? I haven't fully checked the rest but liquidity looks fine doesn't it?
There's over 2 years left at the current burn rate. Losses are also reducing each year so there's likely more than that. By that time the mckesson deal will also be EBIDTA positive.
Some desperate selling from our shorty friends who have recently borrowed stock!
You can't have it both ways VP.
First you say they won't be getting any more CFC orders and now you say they are running out of cash. This despite the fact that what would deplete the cash pile most would be having to pay for more CFCs
An except from the latest Ocado annual results released in Feb 2024 as below. Ocado cash reserves are being depleted quickly. Debt rising sharply. When will they next tap shareholders for cash?
"Cash and cash equivalents of £884.8m at the end of the period (FY22: £1,328.0m) and liquidity of £1.2bn (FY22: £1.6bn) (including the undrawn revolving credit facility ("RCF") of £0.3bn). Net debt* at the end of the period was £(1,075.1)m (FY22: £(577.1)m).
Believe me, I have to be able to stay quite calm. If not, I'd be all over the place like a mad woman's sh it. I'm mostly short term and looking for fast money.
Ok Stupmy - got it! Much of what I say won't be of much relevance to you (especially the 'take a break' stuff!). I'd assumed you were mainly an LTH which requires a cooler and much less impulsive approach. ATB
VP: £394 mill of losses in the recent Ocado group year end results.... (that's a 52 week figure used for y-o-y comparison)
That includes £396m of depreciation, amortisation & impairment which is cash already spent in prior years and spread over a number of years for the purpose of tax optimisation. The business in 2023 generated a £54.2m profit before tax (full 53 weeks). Should OCDO not maximise legitimate tax allowances? Are you suggesting that Depreciation, Amortisation & Impairment represent an ongoing annual cash outflow?
I am trading rather than investing so you're exactly right on that point. I don't need a big rise to take out what I want to take out. If I was able to take 20p. I'd be very happy here. There is the potential for more, but I might not be around long enough for that.
Context is everything Stupmy and you seem to have more of a day trader view than a long term investor. Combining the two can be stressful. For example, nothing I've seen today makes me especially interested other than it went below 350 which was a red flag warning in my mind but a potential trading opportunity for someone with a different perspective. The odd 20 or 30p doesn't ordinarily interest me with OCDO. Although, if I'm sat at home bored then yeah ....
Move to the US imminent this summer. Earlier this month, reports revealed Steiner would be open to considering a switch to the New York Exchange as frustrations grow over the LSE’s failure to see it as a technology company rather than an online grocer.
While a leading benefit from a switch to the US is the improved valuations, it is typically much easier for pay packets to be approved compared to London, where multi-million pound salaries are often scrutinised.
I think everything you've said makes sense, Boyo but as impulsive people often to, I've bought back to my original intended position. I closed the last of the previous position at b/e at 367ish. I'm actually in profit now at 357!! But that can change fast, I don't need to tell you that. I'm wondering about a bounce to 375-380 area.
Charts are pointing to hitting above 360 today. Could be time to invest for long term.
Give yourself a break Stupmy.
If OCADO turns around it won’t be a big deal if you miss the absolute bottom. Better to accumulate as it rises than chase it by averaging down (that’s a mugs game).
The current sp may appear to be at rock bottom but it’s a volatile stock with lots of risks and a high short interest that isn’t reducing. This morning’s opening hour wasn’t great was it? If it breaks below 340 it could dive a good bit further.
So my advice would be to step back, take a break, including from this board, keep a more casual eye on the trends and, if you are familiar with it, the 8,21 daily EMA cross indicator. If you are looking for the long term then don’t watch the trading charts until you are actually ready to buy - they can help optimise the price on the day but at other times they can become an obsessive focus of attention.
Also keep an eye on the BlackRock short position - they are smart re OCDO and they haven’t reduced yet.
It's an investment trust type company.
They say the NAV per share is about 660p but carrying an enormous discount
Https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.html?ShareTicker=GROW&share=Molten-Ventures
Was ftse250 before demotion
Is it US listed? GROW global investors Inc.?
Not something I've followed Sangi. I tend to focus on a small number of companies and wait for what I see as an opportunity. If I get time, I'll take a look and thanks already for the heads up.
I mentioned GROW on here the other day when at about 250 as showing some unexplained movement. I don't do charts but I imagine it must have an interesting one over the last 12 months. Lots of swings up and down. Up to 273 today.
I've started buying some shares. I think we'll see some upside soon.
Ocado made operational profits of 54.2m last year. The 403m pre-tax loss you may be talking about includes 405m of depreciation, amortisation and impairment, which would include software and hardware development capex spent in previous years that is split over a period to offset tax.
I'm really stuggling to make a decision on the price action. I'm somehow feeling the upside is starting to become more likely, but the indicators I use are very mixed. I'm a quite impulsive person so I have to be very careful with these situations. The right thing to do, is to wait, but I always imagine that I can catch a sharper bottom or that I'll miss out on some of the upside when it turns (if it turns). As I said I've started entering long positions on my 'canary' account and I've added this morning. I've been close to buying shares, although fewer than previously
I'm going to struggle to resist for much longer
Kroger actually has a new spoke opening in May 24, but let's just ignore that as it doesn't fit with our agenda.