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Nope. Lets just say I'm taking pity on the uneducated. Particularly those vulnerable enough to be persuaded to throw good money after bad by the snake oil salesmen of the SHAGged.
For someone with no economic interest in this situation --- why u posting so much? U employed by HIBU?
They went bust as well this year don't no the details, thought they were bailed out the same day.
Have heard that quite a number of sales staff have left because being squeezed like pimples. Have also heard that there have been people collaborating to take court action against them because of it. Don't know how true that part is but know first hand about squeezed part. Have heard that money continues to reduce and morale is in deficit?
No economic interest in this situation for me - a bit like the shareholders really! I think you'll find resistance from a load of uneducated protesters will turn out to be futile. What makes you think you are a special case compared to the hundreds of other companies that have ended up owned by their lenders because they borrowed more than they could repay? If you'd bothered to do your homework you wouldn't have ended up in this mess. As for the MPs - don't make me laugh. Bandwagon jumping. I'll bet not one of them knows the legal priority of creditors versus shareholders. And let me tell you one more thing. If you think shareholds should benefit at the expense of creditors how the hell do you think that is good for those thousands of businesses out there that rely on credit from lenders, suppliers, etc? If creditors get treated like shareholders then they will either not give credit (causing more businesses to fail) or they will want equity like returns for doing it which isn't in the interests of shareholders in general. So the Hibu shareholders should just take their medicine like hundreds of other shareholders before them have done, move on and learn from the experience instead of crying like babies that it's not fair.
An ironic tag for someone who has a stake in the restructuring going through as planned. Bet you hadn't for seen such resistance from shareholders, now over 20% of UK MPs are supporting our fight for a fair deal for all stakeholders.,
But do you understand the difference between shareholders and creditors? When you put new equity in at the last rights issue didn't you understand that it would only have any value if all the creditors had been paid in full? I'm sure some on here fail to grasp this basic concept.
9600 staff.... shedding 40% staff and shares suspended - not coping at RIM sadly. They have no debt.... and cash in bank Now - how many staff have these boys got? 13,000? Debt of what 2.3BN and no banks willing to refinance.... suggests to me why its complete wipe out! However - I also think the new chaps SOROS and Co will be slicing the headcount from 13,000.....dread to think of the payroll bill. Suprised Mike hasnt been more aggressive on this front. would do well to follow RIMs 40% model from 13,000 to say 4700-5000 staff. Do the maths - and it makes sense. Perhaps if you stay in you can push for it // but im sure Soros will be anyway to get his cash back quicker! and wipe debt whilst feasible. GL SHG
If shareholders turn creditors are offered 17/18% of the last rights issue price than I'm sure many would be very happy including myself.
An auction of Hibu’s (previously Yell) term loan A is due to take place this afternoon (19 September) at 2pm, according to two traders. A USD 30m equivalent block comprising euros, sterling and US dollars is being shown by a number of banks, added the sources. A chunk of the TLA was on the block in April, when RBS roadshowed a GBP 20m piece at an asking price of 17/18, as reported. Over the past year the UK directories business has undergone a painful workout process, with the deal to be implemented via a UK Scheme of Arrangement, as reported. Hibu’s post restructuring debt will total GBP 1.5bn, split into a GBP 580m five-year bullet cash pay loan and a GBP 920m 10-year bullet subordinated PIK. The cash pay debt includes GBP 500m of debt sitting at the UK/US entities and GBP 80m at the Spanish entity level. The facilities will be denominated in GBP/USD/EUR and split pro rata based on existing holdings. ------- Banks selling their debt for 17/18% of face value. And shareholders feel aggrieved!!!!!
from the evening standard Why Cable’s facing a hibu hullabaloo Business Secretary Vince Cable made headlines at the Lib-Dem party conference with his attack on the “nasty” Tories, but the City was also interested in his announcement about cracking down on “dodgy directors” by changing the law to make companies and boards “more accountable to shareholders and the public”. It came as Cable is under pressure himself from shareholders in Yellow Pages publisher hibu, who have been wiped out after the debt-laden company’s shares were suspended from the stock market in July. The aggrieved investors, who have formed the Hibu Shareholders Group, have accused the board of a “dereliction of duty” and asked Cable to investigate — although hibu has insisted its directors always acted in the best interests of the company, and there has been no suggestion of wrongdoing by the board at this stage. If Cable’s department is to investigate hibu, there is a potentially knotty problem as BIS has links to the company. Last October, UK Trade & Investment, part of BIS, appointed hibu to create Open to Export, billed as “a new online service to help UK-based small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) to trade internationally”. Some small-business owners who also happen to be out-of-pocket shareholders in hibu are less than impressed.
Judging by a number of posts on here some peeps don't know the difference!
Since when have the hibu shareholders become creditors? Is that part of the restructure?
If you hold shares in hibu, please join the hibu shareholders group. Currently 400+ members strong and over 750 million shares registered. Barry Dearing who led the Cattles shareholder group which resulted in a payout 27 times greater than initially offered is now leading this group and you have to be in the group to have any chance of receiving a payout if we go down the creditor route. Please send proof of holdings and photo ID to hibushareholders@gmail.com (note plural) you will then have access to our private forum which details our plans and actions to date as well as future actions.
Agree with BP. He has your best interst at heart because it will save you money to go chase something that has very little chance of success. If I roll a 10 sided dice for you so you have only 1 in 10 chance, do you want to bet? Save your money. Piler, the signs were clear. I said it here all along and if you only paid attention. The revenues were dwindling fast but the overheads remained constant. It was a matter of weeks before their free cashflow wasn't enough to even cover the interest not to mention the capital. That was why the BOD withheld payments to negotiate. When that happens, the company was in the lender's hands and it was only because there were so many lenders that caused the difficulties and delays in coordinating the inevitable......You really need to read up on all these things before you invest big money in companies. Only chance of success is to break up the business but it can't be done as a PLC. It needed to be taken private. That is another story and if I had time, I would explain what the lenders would do next....
You're buying a share in a business for a price. Before doing that shouldn't you think about whether that is a fair price? The same principle applies to deciding whether/when to sell. BoDs are legally truthful (most of the time) but that is no basis on which to invest. If you don't know what you are doing then you're likely to lose money. The banks have taken massive losses here. They lent £2bn+ to this company and they are going to be lucky to get back 25% of that. BUT the business still legally owes them £2bn+ and it can't repay or refinance that amount. This situation happens regularly in the private equity arena (ask Guy Hands about EMI) so again simple research should have pointed the way. Personally I think this management team is incompetent but that's not a crime. With a business worth less than 25% of its liabilities how should this have been avoided?
BP - the onus isn't and shouldn't be on us to explain how if the top brass have gone on public record stating they would (as they did). Yell/hibu were/are trading on a PUBLIC exchange - open to all, not just those with a background in accountancy. I'm still rather new to all this and - maybe as a result - yes, I believed the RNSs. Do I feel silly for having done so? Not in slightest. Will I take them (RNSs in general) at face value again? Not on your Nelly, but then that'll be due to experience - we're not born with it. All that said, aren't we still talking a free cash flow of well into nine figures? If so I'm afraid I simply don't buy what's happened (no pun intended), especially as the debt had been halved at the time of the suspension. I realise they have to make provision for mass-redundancy pay in case it comes to that, but their operational overheads are small and would surely become miniscule on converting more or less fully to digital. It's almost as if they were waiting until shareholders had done most of the dirty work re. this before doing the dirty on them.
Please explain to me how this company was going to MEET the repayment of its £2bn+ of debt in 2015? Those are the only numbers that matter. I'm betting you can't because that is the reality of the situation. The company was insolvent and that made the BoD liable to the lenders for increases in the losses and criminally for wrongful trading if they had ignored the fact and kept the charade going. How could you ignore the signs when they were so clear. ALL THE EUROPEAN PEERS HAVE ENDED UP BEING TAKEN OVER BY THEIR LENDERS.
Thanks, but no thanks, for calling us simpletons. As regards good money after bad, well, it's not much more money after losing a lot. You know, I believe, that it is our best chance of redress, so why aren't you supportive? I don't believe you have our interests at heart. Yell is a big company with many aspects, and the figures can be confusing. Perhaps even you wouldn't understand them enough by someone else's measure. Didn't you READ what I wrote - they WERE ABLE to meet their debts. They CHOSE not to pay up. Honestly, it's not worth listening to you. In fact, please don't bother worrying about us.
Relying purely on RNSs rather than doing even basic research of your own? The "scheduled" debt repayments were tiny in the short term but basic analysis would have indicated that with earnings on a one way decline there was no chance of being able to repay any meaningful proportion of the debt when it matured. Other basic research would have shown that the same fate has befallen all of the European peers. This might suggest that the leveraged model is no longer suitable for this kind of business. The definition of Insolvency in England is that a company has either: 1. An inability to meet its debts as they fall due; or 2. A deficit of assets over liabilities This company failed both tests and therefore the BoD were at risk of wrongful trading if they didn't attempt to address the situation. One of the ways to deal with that would have been to have filed for insolvency another would be to enter into discussions with creditors to restructure the debt. They have chosen the latter. The RNSs were able to be read in more than one way but only people who shouldn't be investing money would have taken them as a positive indication in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. What really worries me is that some of the simpletons who invested in this will be exploited into throwing good money after bad.
Ahem, £937,000 apologies for extra zero (typo)
Correction, 'for whom IT COULD BE ARGUED money is no object"... I mean, a £937,0000 bonus in 2011, 150% of salary, the maximum allowed, may not be enough for him on top of a salary of £695,000. What do I know? Money, money, money, as the song goes...it's a rich man's world....
Thanks Piler for the RNSs. Futile people gainsaying what hibu itself said in their RNSs. Fact is, shareholders trust and base decisions on RNSs, ALL of them, not just a meaningless and incomprehensible 'little or no value being attributed to shares' - what ROT. Yorkshireman, you are not alone, of course. Sorry and glad it's not your all. For some of us it has been substantial. We're not loaded like Pocock, Wiggley and Bates, for whom money is no object. Whatever anyone quips, many (millions of shares held by them) ordinary people have had their pensions affected, lost their savings, are at the mercy of large and merciless groups all working against the average private investor, who should rightly quail at the thought of investing again.
Thanks for concern -- hope it not over yet -- but if it is i will survive :D
They're only a gamble, though, in the sense that buying them can be risky. As I posted here not too long ago, it's not a gamble in the way that playing roulette is as you do actually own something. This makes it harder to take. Anyway, sorry to hear this debacle has hit your pension - hopefully it hasn't too heavily and good luck with any other and / or future investments.