Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Wanted profit from this share to help with pension - agree all shares are a gamble ---- but agree Pocock misled potential investors -- hope he and all his cronies suffer -- life has a habit -- of this happening --- So your time will come Pocock ----wish everyone well -- especially the group fighting for shareholders ----
"Can I as why no one read the RNSs or sold out?" Well I did - I read the following RNSs "Yell's strong cash flows have enabled the Group to meet all of its scheduled debt repayments and to accelerate early repayment of debt for the second time in four months." Tony Bates, Chief Financial Officer of hibu/Yell; hibu RNS (number 6480F); 28 April 2011 "Following the appointment of Goldman Sachs and Greenhill as advisers in May and an extensive review of the options, the Board has decided to move proactively and engage with our stakeholders. Our aim is to formulate a capital structure which will support the Group's exciting business potential while safeguarding existing shareholders' interests to the fullest extent possible." Bob Wigley, Chairman; hibu RNS (number 7538I); 30 July 2012 "During the first half, the Group has continued to make significant progress on its four year strategy to build a material new digital business”. Mike Pocock, CEO; hibu RNS (number 9457Q); 13 November 2012 It seems Pocock also told the Guardian in 2011 that they would meet all their debt obligations between then and when they were due to mature in 2015 without the need to renegotiate, and that an announcement re. hibu would be made at the Microsoft annual conference last year. That's what reeled me in. I didn't sell after that ridiculously ambiguous and meaningless 'warning' because by the time it was announced the backside had already dropped out of the share price.
well I say book - more the case it is the size of an office note book - adverts too small to read without a magnifying glass...! and about 1cm thick... yes 1cm....! .... kind of a barometer on paid advertising in a printed directory format in a recession and big competition from online google etc
i think the costs of write down - and the 13000 staff bill, exceptional costs and all - and no bank will to refinance - leads to one result - shut up shop.... and lose all 13000 jobs, or have someone willing and able to pay the banks bank and take the keys. Welcome on stage Soros and Co. Why did no shareholders pipe up at any AGMS? re remuneration? and strategy and all? Just a question ...! As too little too late springs to mind - the warnings to shareholders were there in all the RNSs - were they not? My advice is to be careful throwing more money after bad on this putting up a fight - - print is dead. Dead. The digital is not covering costs - and I expect now with new owners that the unionised environment will be a thing of the past for staff. min statutory redundancies, and cost cutting will commence in an aggressive manner to reduce operating costs. 13,000 staff? Compare that headcount to equivalent business of this size in sector. Time to make efficiency savings. As for shareholders - well good luck. It is only suspended.... but the agreement was if shareholders get a bean the deal is off. And sounds like the deal has gone through now? banks been paid down and out the equation. ALL IMHO. Hibu is not a bank lol it is a very distressed business in a very competitive market trying to keep its head above water - and the debt was too big against plummeting revenues. Can I as why no one read the RNSs or sold out? all the warning signs were there for those gambling on the sidelines of the business performance. GL tho with your endeavours.
Yell hibu is NOT insolvent, it is highly CASH GENERATIVE. Mike Pocock, CEO, said last year that THEY ARE THEIR OWN BANK! With many spare millions in the bank left over, he could have PAID the debt, but CHOSE not to, creating a serious situation. This was avoidable. They do not need to give the company away to the lenders. So, if there is anyone who holds shares in Yell (now called hibu), please consider joining the legitimate hibu shareholders group to fight this giveaway of our shares and money and company. Currently 400+ members strong and over 750 million shares registered. We have written to MPs, the Financial Conduct Authority and are speaking with the newspapers. Note that solicitor Barry Dearing who led the Cattles shareholder group which resulted in a payout 27 times greater than initially offered is now advising and leading this group and you have to be in the group to have any chance of receiving a payout if we go down the creditor route. That is, if the court awards payment to creditors, rather than shareholders. If it awards a payment to shareholders, everyone will get something for their shares. In the Cattles case which Barry won, the court only awarded to creditors. If you want to join, please send proof of holdings (copy of some sort) and photo ID (like driving licence) to hibushareholders@gmail.com (note PLURAL) you will then have access to our private forum which details our plans and actions to date as well as future actions. If you hold shares, this group is your BEST chance of getting redress and something for your shares.... please support it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/exclusive-yellow-pages-investors-accuse-board-of-dereliction-of-duty-8810343.html Still reckon a head count of 12-13,000 is twice as many as it should be - half it and make the remaining work twice as hard / merge role. Easy. The wage bill is enormous and must be addressed Mr Pocock - add to the bottom line - obvious really - no choice.
The guys are working very hard and may have missed your email, I would suggest that you email Chris again on the below email: hibushareholders@gmail.com (note plural)
I did this but never got a reply
No way would they offer 6x the current share price. And particularly not to incur all the costs and delay of a circular only to have it rejected as in Mouchel.
If you hold shares in hibu, please join the hibu shareholders group. Currently 400+ members strong and over 750 million shares registered. Barry Dearing who led the Cattles shareholder group which resulted in a payout 27 times greater than initially offered is now leading this group and you have to be in the group to have any chance of receiving a payout if we go down the creditor route. Please send proof of holdings and photo ID to hibushareholders@gmail.com (note plural) you will then have access to our private forum which details our plans and actions to date as well as future actions.
Would have cost about a measly 20 million quid to have done so - peanuts in the scheme of things.
If cocom & the board didn't want to invite legal agro they could simply have compensated shareholders with 1p. They would have covered their posteriors... however greed willed them on and greed delivers pay back in one form or another as the world has a balance to counter the tails.
Maybe they should if there was a credible alternative to the same outcome other than just waiting. Fact is there wasn't.
This guy sums it up very well. http://cyberio.byethost4.com/discussion/1/hibu-plc hibu put iitself in voluntary default and the shareholders action group ought to challenge.
BlindPanic ... Thank you for your response ... I don't think I can offer much to counter it, other than claiming lack of sufficient experience & so I still think what I think re the oddness of the debt being left on the books... Regarding Mouchel, I did not invest but looked at it after it went pop and thought the shareholders were right to take a principled stand and reject what looked like a patronising offer of shut up money ... Regarding HIBU I would probably do the same if offered sub 0.6p cash, because this type of bet should result in a win or lose all outcome IMO and not some kind of "we feel sorry for you heres a bit back" outcome... looks pretty certain to be lose all, despite the presence of a fantastic action group IMO! ... so be it.
Indeed I do (or did). I was agreeing that his (or her) maths disn't stack up and making a cheap shot that this is how that kind of maths got them where they are today. In fact I was wrong since Mille had undercooked the calculation by 10x I was the wrong way around. In convincing lenders and shareholders to invest in this pile of crap i think the management must have inflated their maths by 10x ........... oh no I've just fed the SHAGged bunch another conspiracy theory!
Wallop of the cod variety. By the way, BP, you do realise I was quoting Mille in my last post?
Lemmink - there is always going to be debt left in a situation like this partly due to maintaining a tax efficient capital structure and partly because many lenders will want to take the minimum possible write down on their debt positions. Don't disagree that not all current lenders have lost money as depends on their entry price and that there is arguably some benefit in retaining a listing. I think the Mouchel experience (failure to get shareholder consent for a shareholder payout) caused the GS team to change tack here. Not really surprising if comments from shareholders on boards like this are really reflective of the masses. They just don't get it.
BlindPanic ... I agree lenders appear to have a moral right to wipe out shareholders if they choose ... Lol perhaps the action group can find a "just cause" for redress, but they don't seem to be doing much besides counting share certificates etc... I dont think its necessarily true that the current debt holders are all out of pocket, and I note that the current restructuring proposal as it stands will still leave debt on the books, which seems pointless given theyre taking all the equity? ... It seems that the current restructuring proposal is not intended as a "final solution" before knuckling down to the "business problem" but rather a prelude to more inter stakeholder games... in which case de-listing and excluding a risk capital market may be a tad silly, when it can be kept at little cost (by allowing current equity positions to survive with a not so massive sub zero intrinsic worth).
Far easier to have offered shareholders a small amount to agree to a consensual deal. HOWEVER, that is exactly what the very same advisory team at Goldman Sachs did on Mouchel entailing a shareholder circular, EGM, vote etc and it got rejected so I guess they are avoiding that delay and cost this time. Make no mistake though the lenders will ONLY offer the shareholders anything for a more convenient implementation route not because they feel sorry for them. Fact is they don't and they have lost far more money on this company than the shareholders ever have. All the lenders can justify "their proposal to wipe out the shareholders" on simple economic terms - the business is worth a lot less than the debt and that will never change so the shareholders have no true economic interest any longer.
That's the kind of maths that got this thing into the mess it is in!
I read somewhere the cocom justified their proposal to wipe out shareholders because it was necessary to satisfy the other lenders... which suggests they dont really think its necessary to wipe us out? ... perhaps some energetic donkey from the action group could ask them what they would do if it was only up to them??
"£1700 is 1M. So £17k buys 100M"?! Am i missing something? Couldn't resist the "hold" rec. whilst I was here.
Me too. I emailed mine as well and have heard nothing. What is actually happening with these shares. I have just received an email from Hibu to say ' business gets better with Hibu ' and making loads of offers. So they are still trading.
I note Cbbc and co celebrating 700m shares in their group. No mean feat that. The mms did a good job getting em off their / brokers books. ! But for value ....£1700 is 1M. So £17k buys 100M so £119K would allow a pay out of 0.17p to those registered (closing price). Now go back to the early bonus payments of gross £3k per head for 12/13000 staff. £39M paid. So one can kind of guess where in the pecking order those gambling on the side lines are in the queue. A real shame the group didnt get involved when acquiring the Spanish operation etc and on remuneration and strategy and all sorts. The passion and interest and determination and innovation from those I've read on the discussion Boards is indeed better than many of the organisation's employees. ! With customer count under 1M and on last indication Falling at 10 % a year - plus arpa falling with it (average revenue per advertiser) then the new owners one would expect will be ensuring employee head count is carved off on a curve ahead of customer churn rate. If any business is haemoraging customer accounts as per figures suggests then simple maths lends that the biggest overheads / workers need cutting back at a more aggressive rate ....15% per annum ie 2000 head count reduction - until such time the business turns around / but reducing such overheads and sharing reduced work loads will turn it around. Common business sense. Good luck shareholder group. Perhaps ironically you formed a little too late - when you could have infact steered the direction of this and never allowed it to get in an untenable position. If soros and co hadnt rescued it - the business could not have limped along (albeit awarding big discretionary bonuses) And would be shutting up shop. So it's great for the remaining employee base (burgeoning almost as much as the debt pile!) Enjoy the sun. And the beer. Final throws of summer.